Ford hires banks to sell Jaguar, Land Rover

Spectre said:
Most of Jaguar's engineering staff fled in the 90s and after Callum screwed up the F-Type concept.
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Would you rather blame Callum, the guy who designed something that beautiful, or the management staff that refused/forgot to put it into production?
 
BlaRo said:
Would you rather blame Callum, the guy who designed something that beautiful, or the management staff that refused/forgot to put it into production?
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Um...

Keith Helfet, who designed the XJ220 and the 80's F-type as well as the first generation XK8 and the XK180 concept, was responsible for the 2000 F-Type concept. Callum didn't design it; people were actually giving deposits to dealers for it.

What Callum DID do is redesign it so it looked like a Mitsubishi Eclipse, people took their deposits back, Helfet quit.

Callum's non-Aston designs suck.

Added: Helfet's 2000 F-Type Concept:

F-Type.jpg

Jaguar-F-Type-rear.jpg



Callum's "Revised" 2002 F-Type Concept:

ftype-front-w400.jpg

ftype-side-w400.jpg

ftype-back-w400.jpg


Is it any wonder people asked for their deposits back?

The wrong designer at Jaguar got the chief designer job when Geoff Lawson died.
 
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This isn't good news. In todays market, unless you're Porsche or Ferrari, it difficult to survive without a large volume manufacturer. R&D, electronics etc, cost a bundle and requires a large engineering infrastructure. It's not enough just to have a couple of boffins in a garage.

Aston, Jag and LR are back to where they were approx 15yrs ago. In the long run they won't be able to keep up with the opposition.
 
Spectre said:
Um...

Keith Helfet, who designed the XJ220 and the 80's F-type as well as the first generation XK8 and the XK180 concept, was responsible for the 2000 F-Type concept. Callum didn't design it; people were actually giving deposits to dealers for it.

What Callum DID do is redesign it so it looked like a Mitsubishi Eclipse, people took their deposits back, Helfet quit.

Callum's non-Aston designs suck.


Is it any wonder people asked for their deposits back?

The wrong designer at Jaguar got the chief designer job when Geoff Lawson died.
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But what about this

http://img505.imageshack.**/img505/6807/2007jaguarxkconvertiblekq8.jpg

and this

http://img400.imageshack.**/img400/4442/bond22jaguarcxf1uq4.jpg
 
Spectre said:
What Jag needs to do is go to a four product matrix - S-Type equivalent, XJ, F-Type, and XK. That's all. No 3-series competitors, nothing down market.
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Actually, your right. A small Jaguar just isn't right, it goes against what a Jaguar is.
 
Spectre said:
Callum's "Revised" 2002 F-Type Concept:
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Thanks for clearing that up, I was referring to the first one that everybody made a huge deal about and was cancelled promptly afterwards, as I've never seen the "revised" version before.
 
LeMans GTR said:
But what about this

and this
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One of those is an Aston Martin design with a new grille, the other looks OK up to the A-pillar, then it goes off into the weeds.

The new XK only looks OK from the front.

BlaRo said:
Thanks for clearing that up, I was referring to the first one that everybody made a huge deal about and was cancelled promptly afterwards, as I've never seen the "revised" version before.
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Here's the sequence:
1. Helfet designs first F-Type in the 80s. Design is cancelled, turned over to Aston Martin after the Ford acquisition, became the Aston DB7.
2. Helfet designs second F-Type which debuts in 2000 as a concept.
3. People go nuts over 2000 F-Type and hand over unsolicited deposits to dealers.
4. Jaguar management announces that the F-Type will be put into production.
5. Ian Callum, who has succeeded to the chief designer slot after the death of Geoff Lawson (designer of X300 [95-97 XJ], X308 [98-03 XJ8], New S-Type, co-designer of XJ220 with Helfet) through politicking, takes over project.
6. Callum completely redesigns the car to be in line with his own sensibilities (while claiming that the 2000 car isn't 'producable'), produces 2002 sketches above (which appear to show a car that's even LESS producable).
7. People demand their deposits back.
8. Jaguar management cancels F-Type due to lack of interest (since Callum won't back down from his design).
9. Helfet, who was all but Sir William's chosen heir in terms of styling, quits in disgust with Callum and Jaguar.

The lesson here can actually be drawn from Chrysler - if you show a concept car, and lots of people are putting down deposits on it, you produce the car as close to the concept as possible. See Ram, Viper, 300, PT Cruiser... Jaguar didn't seem to have ever learned that.

The interesting thing is that the 2000 F-Type Concept was supposed to be a producible, affordable version of the XK180 show car:

Jaguar-XK180-pool.jpg


newtitel.jpg


pic02.jpg


Well, now someone's selling replica XK180s, built off the XJS or XK8 (not that they're really different) chassis: http://www.xk180.com/
 
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0497 said:
This isn't good news. In todays market, unless you're Porsche or Ferrari, it difficult to survive without a large volume manufacturer. R&D, electronics etc, cost a bundle and requires a large engineering infrastructure. It's not enough just to have a couple of boffins in a garage.
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Why couldn't Jag be like Porsche?

Have 2 models in lineup (XJ and XK), make decent profit (I believe Porsche earns 20.000 EUR per car) and become a niche manufacturer once again. S-type and X-type did much more damage than benefit IMHO. With them, Jag confronted Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes (and LOST) instead of trying to be "something more" - speaking in terms of character. A strong competition to likes of Porsche, Maserati, ...

And I agree with spectre - the new design isn't good enough.
  • Pre-facelift XJ(R ;) ) was a work of art, now it looks like the car had gone through a NFS: Most Wanted makeover.
  • XK? Hyundai Coupe (Tiburon). It's sterile. There are two good looks for a Jag: a) totally new, radical (E-type, XJS, XK8 ) or b) aristocratic, graceful (XJ). This one is neither, it's generic.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jaguar, my next car will definitely be a Jag, but I don't feel that the ship is sailing in the right direction.
 
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0497 said:
This isn't good news. In todays market, unless you're Porsche or Ferrari, it difficult to survive without a large volume manufacturer. R&D, electronics etc, cost a bundle and requires a large engineering infrastructure. It's not enough just to have a couple of boffins in a garage.
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Ferrari gets a bit of help from the Fiat group (which owns a good chunk of them) and Porsche spreads it's development costs with VAG/Audi, Bosch even on some occasion, Mercedes.

So I think I just helped you prove your point. Jaguar may be able to survive on their own, but they would be smart to partner up with a couple of other companies (and not in BL fashion).
 
Chrysler's new owner interested in Jaguar, Land Rover?

06/14/07, 01:02pm, EDT

Cerberus Capital Management ? the company that recently agreed to buy the Chrysler Group from Daimler-Benz ? is now interested in joining the auction for Ford?s luxury car brands Jaguar and Land Rover, Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported today.

The newspaper said the information comes from London bank sources. The sale of the two brands would likely net Ford over $8 billion, the paper reported. Two other investor groups, Blackstone and Cinven have also shown interest.

Renault-Nissan and private equity firm Alchemy Partners denied rumors earlier this week about an interest in the brands.

A new auto giant?

If Cerberus was to acquire the two British automakers from Ford ? a completely hypothetical scenario at this point in time ? then it would own five key car brands: Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Jaguar, and Land Rover.

Essentially, it would be an auto giant in its own right. Whether the brands would be treated as one large company or simply separate properties remains to be seen.

Back on the block

Ford was rumored to be considering the sale of Land Rover and Jaguar last year, but apparently decided against the move at the time. The company did, however, put Aston Martin up for sale in August 2006, and the brand was official sold earlier this year.

News that the two companies were up for sale again broke on Monday.

Two days ago, Ford confirmed to Automotive News it was considering all options regarding Jaguar and Land Rover.

?We?re working with outside financial advisers to determine the best future for Jaguar and Land Rover,? Ford spokesman John Gardiner said. ?We?re not ruling anything in or out. We?re investigating options in terms of all the possible actions.?

Volvo connection

These latest reports make no mention of Volvo, which Ford is also rumored to be considering selling. As previously reported, BMW considered acquiring Volvo earlier this year in its effort to find a front-wheel-drive specialist to pair with its Mini unit for increased profitability.
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Source
 
shame, landrover/range rover are probably doing quite well

i think half of middlesbrough sent money their way because theres endless numbers of LR3's, RRS's and normal RR's

hardly anyones touched the new freelander mind, must be all too rich mans for that now.
 
otispunkmeyer said:
shame, landrover/range rover are probably doing quite well

i think half of middlesbrough sent money their way because theres endless numbers of LR3's, RRS's and normal RR's

hardly anyones touched the new freelander mind, must be all too rich mans for that now.
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The LR2/Freelander 2 is selling pretty well in the states. It is doing enough to pick up the slack from the LR3/Disco 3 sales.


repost from another forum I visit:

I know one idea that was kicked around at Jag was this...

With the demise of the X-type a smaller much more sporty coupe and roadster could be built. Platform was unknown maybe a new one maybe an older one with lots more aluminum to save weight. The engine though ohh the engine was brilliant IMO.

Take the new Volvo straight six, which can be mounted longitudinally, and put that in the coupe/roadster. Basically you get a modern E-type but take the styling in a different direction.

The Volvo version of this engine makes 235 hp and 236 torque with a fairly fat power band.

Slap some turbos on it and it makes 281 hp and 295 torque. Tell me that wouldn't make a hot, hot car
 
I doubt that Cerberus can make it. Times are becoming tougher for leveraged buy-outs. There are still billions of debt waiting to be sold.
Tata however is another story, Indian companies are trying hard to get into Europe and Tata should still have a couple of billions left.
But I don't see how this is news, they don't bring anything new and there rumours came out end september. They also forgot to mention Terra Firma... bad article
 
Come on Ford do the right thing and sell Volvo aswell!!! We know you want to!!
 
Karoug said:
Come on Ford do the right thing and sell Volvo aswell!!! We know you want to!!
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Umm that would hurt both Volvo and Ford immensely, they are too far integrated now. Also remember before Ford bought them Volvo's line-up was pretty stale. Calling an 850 a S70 or a 700 series estate a V90 didn't make them new cars.
 
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I wish JCB would buy the pairing - they have decent management, cash to spare, and turned an ailing business into a very profitable one. They were told to design their own engine would be madness; now they have a very successful diesel V6 (I think).

However I doubt it will happen.

I honestly don't know where Jag can go, and frankly, I don't want it to go to any of the firms mentioned (Tata, Cerberus etc etc).
 
TPG would be a good match. They turned Ducati completely around.
 
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