Ford Discovers That Making Better Cars Costs Them Less Money!

[Cobol74]

Teeb - that is why I said get the development processes they went through and reuse them, rather than the cars themselves - it would work I am sure.

 

[torrent_rider]

The money could not come out of workers paychecks, because everything was unionized (something the Japanese never had to deal with)

You obviously aren't aware of thefact that Japanese car companies are unionized and they have had clashes since the 1970s so saying that America had unions and Japan didn't and that's what hurt us is simply not factual. What really helped the Japanese is Universal Heathcare. We don't have it because of right wing politicians and their lemmings.

 

[argatoga]

What really helped the Japanese is Universal Heathcare. We don't have it because of right wing politicians and their lemmings.

That and we can't afford it. The US government is too busy spending billions on an overseas war, and pumping money into scams like Social Security (a scam which has only lasted this long due to the baby boom).

 

[Cobol74]

Anyhoo -

Edmunds - US Magazine Review of the latest Mondeo (European)

" Every European-engineered Ford since the first Mondeo has driven extremely well thanks to the oversight of Richard Parry-Jones, who recently retired as Ford's chief technical officer (and has been honored by Queen Elizabeth II with a CBE, no less). His successors have continued this good work with the new Mondeo.

The sedan's suspension features the Mondeo's familiar arrangement of MacPherson struts at the front and Ford's multilink independent setup at the back. The rear subframe of the chassis has been isolated in the interests of improving on-road refinement.

It works. No other front-drive sedan goes down the road as effectively as the Mondeo. It might not be quite as agile as some of its smaller predecessors, but it's hugely accomplished. The damping is terrific, combining excellent high-speed control with a low-speed ride that, while firm by U.S. standards, is never uncomfortable. It's so good that you wonder why Ford bothered to give this car its optional adjustable suspension control.

We also think the Mondeo's crisp steering is a factor here, especially as Parry-Jones is a fanatic on the subject. The Mondeo features a conventional hydraulic-assisted power steering system in place of the electrohydraulic system fitted to the Focus, and there's more road feel through the rim of the steering wheel, which enhances the Mondeo's impression of agility. So, too, does the rapid shift action of the six-speed manual gearbox.

All this makes the Mondeo a fine tool for driving long distances, yet this car also proves genuinely entertaining when the road starts to twist. Team RS, Ford of Europe's performance division, will have a fine starting point if it's given license to tune the Mondeo. "

Whole article here. ...

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=123824/pageNumber=1

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

You obviously aren't aware of thefact that Japanese car companies are unionized and they have had clashes since the 1970s so saying that America had unions and Japan didn't and that's what hurt us is simply not factual. What really helped the Japanese is Universal Heathcare. We don't have it because of right wing politicians and their lemmings.

I did not realize they had auto unions there. What are the pay differences though? What does a ford employee make next to a honda employee?

 

[Cobol74]

Different sort of union - they are company unions not industry unions afaik - so more like a staff association. They have a system of arbitration for pay rounds where the company puts an offer in a sealed envalope and the union puts in a claim - these are different, a third party opens them up and one or the other is selected as being fair and that is it - company pays. This stops the union putting in for 20% as it would never be selected and the company putting in an offer of 0% as again it would never be selected - seems to work and there are no strikes.

 

[AiR]

UAW's make 30 bucks an hour? I highly doubt that, or we will need to get our wages up. FYI, the entire european automotive industry is unionized (since we're all commies) and we manage to build good cars anyway.

 

[thedguy]

UAW's make 30 bucks an hour? I highly doubt that, or we will need to get our wages up. FYI, the entire european automotive industry is unionized (since we're all commies) and we manage to build good cars anyway.

It's been well documented in pretty much every article in the past 2 years about the UAW talks with GM/Ford/Chrysler. They make closer to $35/hour. After they paid for their retirement and benefits... nearer to $75/hour.

Their excessively high wages are why many people don't support them these days. They make more than many college educated people.

 

[Deanodriver]

Not only they overpay the workers, but I'd say the other obstacle, as mentioned earlier, is that Americans won't pay much for their cars.

We'll use the Pontiac G8 as an example. The V8-powered GT model there is what, about $30,000USD? The G8's MSRP is LESS after conversion than the basic fleet pack Commodore here, with a 3.6L engine, four speed automatic, and no airconditioning (although probly 99% of cars option it).

The reason the European Fords won't come here has also been mentioned, price. I highly doubt they'd be able to bring a Mondeo to the States and have it on the showroom floor for less than $20,000USD. Maybe with a ~$25,000 pricetag and a Mercury badge, but still not that likely. We get them quite a bit cheaper than they are in Europe, IIRC. The basic Mondeo here is $30K (as is most of the Camry-class cars).

Can't expect perfection for such a low price.

 

[edkwon]

Or perhaps bringing over the European Focus and the new Mondeo...

a great idea except i think it'll cost american employees their jobs if Ford imports their european cars or even the parts over to the US, so the damn auto unions and probably some politicians will cock block that attempt.

 

[thedguy]

Not only they overpay the workers, but I'd say the other obstacle, as mentioned earlier, is that Americans won't pay much for their cars.

We'll use the Pontiac G8 as an example. The V8-powered GT model there is what, about $30,000USD? The G8's MSRP is LESS after conversion than the basic fleet pack Commodore here, with a 3.6L engine, four speed automatic, and no airconditioning (although probly 99% of cars option it).

The reason the European Fords won't come here has also been mentioned, price. I highly doubt they'd be able to bring a Mondeo to the States and have it on the showroom floor for less than $20,000USD. Maybe with a ~$25,000 pricetag and a Mercury badge, but still not that likely. We get them quite a bit cheaper than they are in Europe, IIRC. The basic Mondeo here is $30K (as is most of the Camry-class cars).

Can't expect perfection for such a low price.

To import the euro focus/mondeo might be to expensive (they actually claim it's more of a problem with converting them to LHD and meeting US safety standards), but there is no reason they couldn't build them here. The Ford Contour is a Mondeo built and re-engineered in the US, and it was a pile of shit, largely because of "not invented here syndrome."

The GTO/G8 are so cheap because GM needed a better product to compete with Chrysler, Ford could have likely done similar with the Falcon if they had any brains.

a great idea except i think it'll cost american employees their jobs if Ford imports their european cars or even the parts over to the US, so the damn auto unions and probably some politicians will cock block that attempt.

Lucky for the American workers they have contracts that ensure they have a paycheck and a place to go if there is no actual work. As I said before, there is no reason they couldn't manufacture the vehicle here the same as they do in Europe. It wouldn't put anyone out of work (yet) it would merely make the US division re-think how they are going about business.

The problem Ford still has is they believe we still just want cheap piles of shit. What they don't realize is people never wanted that, it was our only choice. All they'd have to do is look at Mercedes-Benz sales numbers over the past 20 years to see that. In the 80's Mercedes sold shitloads of 190e's as they weren't to horribly priced, but you got a quality vehicle, once Benz took a dump, their sales did as well.

 

[Cobol74]

converting them to LHD

Er GB, Ireland and Cyprus excepted all of Europe is LHD so that bit is incorrect. It is costs and NIH in my opinion. Still they have found a processes that work so they should use the same processes - oh and shoot the bean counters - not literally obviously.

 

[marcos_eirik]

a great idea except i think it'll cost american employees their jobs if Ford imports their european cars or even the parts over to the US, so the damn auto unions and probably some politicians will cock block that attempt.

Easy solution, just build the european Focus and the Mondeo in american factories. Result: everybody is happy... Workers keep their jobs and the customers get good cars...

 

[devil500]

a great idea except i think it'll cost american employees their jobs if Ford imports their european cars or even the parts over to the US, so the damn auto unions and probably some politicians will cock block that attempt.

Build them in the states use the same parts and engineering how hard can it be? GM has begun to use the same platforms all over the globe so why can't Ford?