Best home defense shotgun?

Let's not forget that the country with the greatest availability of guns isn't the US. The country that has that title has almost unrestricted ownership of fully-automatic rifles, silencers, short-barrelled rifles and shotguns, squad machine guns, and other military gear by regular citizenry - all of which US citizens are either outright prohibited from owning or require lengthy, intrusive and extensive Federal, State, *and* local government investigation and approval to get. In fact, the country with this title GIVES each adult man a fully-automatic assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition to keep in his home, sponsors shooting contests, and sells off fully-functional surplus government weapons to its citizens at a discount when they are replaced.

That country is Switzerland.

Compared to a guy having a fully-automatic full-house 7.62mm battle rifle, a shotgun is small potatoes...

I can't give any advise on what shotgun is best fo you as the only single-barrel shotgun I ever used was a Spas-15, nor will I join the discussion about the ethics of home defense (although shoot-to-kill advise really makes me bite my tongue).

But the above post is afaik just full of outdated and/or incorrect information (please correct me if I'm wrong, no expert on civilian weapons law).

"unrestricted ownership of fully-automatic rifles, silencers, short-barrelled rifles and shotguns, squad machine guns, and other military gear by regular citizenry"

Fully automatic weapons and silencers (among laser iluminators and night vision scopes) need special approval which is harder to get than the required license for all pistols and revolvers, semi-automatic rifles, lever and pump action rifles, sniper rifles as well as barrels/breech blocks/frames/slides of the previous. One-shot, multi-barrel, sport caliber, standard caliber bolt-action rifles and hunting rifles can be purchased with ID+extract from police records, hunting license, carry permit, or regular license accordingly.

"In fact, the country with this title GIVES each adult man a fully-automatic assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition to keep in his home,"

Ex-army members can opt to take ownership of their service rifle, but it needs to be converted to semi-automatic (conversion paid by the new owner), the ammunition is now only issued to members of certain units (MP?). Current army members however do take their rifle home (below a certain age the breech block stays in the army weapons chamber).
 
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New Haven State's Attorney Michael Dearington said Thursday that he will seek the death penalty against two convicted burglars accused of killing the wife and two daughters of a prominent Connecticut physician in a home invasion and arson this week:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291018,00.html

That happened less then two hours from where I live and was seriously fucked up. Those monsters tied the girls to their beds then set the house on fire. They probably did a lot of other things to them too first.
 
And the ONLY way of keeping out people, is that you own a gun? That doesnt make any sence. If you have a good alarm system, etc, that DOES! Who ever breaks in you house, he doesnt know you have a gun, or you dont..

If somebody breaks in your house, you shoot him? What the hell? How do you know he wanted to harm you, or anybody? Dont get me wrong, if anybody whould break in my house, and i would have an opportunity, i would hit him in the head very hard, and kick his ass :) But would never try to kill him.

Keeping gun for "sport shooting" is a different thing, thats cool, cos you learn to use something properly, and in a controlled enviroment. Still, i wouldnt bring a gun to my home... There are safety boxes in most of the shooting centers here. And people use them...

No Boss: Yes, you are right, everybody should know how to use them, but not for using them, but for protecting your self from shooting your self, if you ever get a gun in your hand.

Sorry, but this is MY opinion, no offense :)

mancs, dude, you're defending these burglars as if they're your damn siblings. :lol:
You need to stop robbing homes rather than try to convince people not to shoot you. :p ;)
 
I can't give any advise on what shotgun is best fo you as the only single-barrel shotgun I ever used was a Spas-15, nor will I join the discussion about the ethics of home defense (although shoot-to-kill advise really makes me bite my tongue).

But the above post is afaik just full of outdated and/or incorrect information (please correct me if I'm wrong, no expert on civilian weapons law).

I hadn't checked on the current Swiss gun law in a while. Wikipedia (which may be of dubious accuracy) claims that both of us were wrong in some aspects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Apparently they're issuing the SIG 550, and they keep it *functional* at home. They also increased the ammo ration issued. So, yes, they do still have functional full-auto rifles at home - at least if the home contains an adult male between the age of 20 and 30 or 34 (since all Swiss males are part of the military in that age bracket).

From what I'm reading there, they still have fewer restrictions on gun ownership than in most US states.
 
I hadn't checked on the current Swiss gun law in a while. Wikipedia (which may be of dubious accuracy) claims that both of us were wrong in some aspects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Apparently they're issuing the SIG 550, and they keep it *functional* at home. They also increased the ammo ration issued. So, yes, they do still have functional full-auto rifles at home - at least if the home contains an adult male between the age of 20 and 30 or 34 (since all Swiss males are part of the military in that age bracket).

From what I'm reading there, they still have fewer restrictions on gun ownership than in most US states.

The "home ammo" is only issued to alarm formations and is stored in a sealed package. Not every male in the age bracket serves in the military, apart from the medical exemptions there is also an alternative civilian service. But yes, they have a very liberal gun law compared to most other European countries.
 
And the ONLY way of keeping out people, is that you own a gun? That doesnt make any sence. If you have a good alarm system, etc, that DOES!
An alarm system is a countdown until the cops show up. It makes noise but doesn't chase anyone out the door.

Hearing the sha-CLACK of a pump action shotgun is the countdown to a very bad day.

I'm not a gun owner, I wish I'll never have to consider getting one to feel safe in my own place but if push ever comes to shove, I can't get a German Sheppard (allergies) and I would protect myself and from what I read here I would so consider a shotgun and the proper classes to learn how to handle it properly and damn anyone who would dare enter uninvited through a window or breaking down a door. :evil:
 
Roman: Exactly.

It should also be mentioned that the firearm should *not* be your primary defense against a home invader or burglar. No, your primary defense is your fence, locked doors and windows, and curtains/blinds to keep prying eyes out. And yes, a loud alarm with telephone link to scare away the amateurs. (Most burglars/home invaders are not amateurs but already have criminal records.) But once the invader is inside your house (because he's gotten past all the other things that say "keep out"), you're going to need a weapon to defend yourself and yours and the most effective weapon one can get is a firearm.

It should also be mentioned that in many US cities, police response time can be 8-15 minutes or more - mostly due to the large geographic areas that they occupy. In rural areas, it can be *hours*, so you can see why someone would not wish to rely on the police coming to one's aid in time. A common joke over here about big-city police response times:

"Think you can depend on the police to get to you in time to save your life? Try the following exercise (at your own risk, of course): Call the police and report a burglary in progress. Call Dominos (a US national pizza delivery restaurant chain, which is famous for delivering in less than 30 minutes or the pizza is free) and order a pizza. See who shows up first. Hint: have change for the pizza boy." (The implication is that the pizza will get there first, and the police will get there much later - and usually they're right.)


Some countries have societies where the types of crime we have here are unheard of. Most of Canada comes to mind - but in the US the situation is different. I wish it wasn't - I really wish we didn't have to worry about home invaders casually murdering people in their sleep because they didn't want to be identified as the people that stole things from their house. I wish we didn't have the social ills and the crumbling societal morals that cause these problems. However, it's what we have, and one must adapt to circumstances as you find them. And I refuse to be a helpless victim - as do many of my fellow citizens, it seems.
 
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Wow, here we had a whole debate about gun ownership and I missed it.

I need a blackberry.
 
Guys... No im not protecting the robbers. They should all go in prison, but not get killed... Life is life. Couldnt care whos life is it.
 
Here's an example. In New York, burglary is punishable by life imprisonment if the perpetrator has committed crimes in the past. Murder is punishable by life imprisonment.

Does life actually mean life in the US?
 
Does life actually mean life in the US?

It depends on the state. In general, states and the Feds have are three sentences used for getting rid of someone who is a danger to society on a more or less permanent basis. I will list them and their typical/intended employment - note that this doesn't mean they won't be misused, this is just what they were intended for.

1. Life With Possibility Of Parole: Used when the convicted has committed a severe crime but the judge or jury thinks that after some long indefinite period of the individual may repent and be rehabilitated into a productive member of society. Falling into disuse because of soft-hearted parole boards, criminals getting better at acting (you must demonstrate good behavior in jail and show repentance for the crime to the parole board) and for other reasons. However, someone receiving this sentence will not see his first parole hearing for at least 10-20 years in any case, barring exceptional circumstance. But it *is* possible that they will be out in 10. Understandably not popular because of this.

2. Life Without Possibility Of Parole: Used when the crime does not merit death (if that's even available) but the convicted is assumed to be unrehabilitatable. In the vast majority of states (mine included), "Life without parole" means "Life without parole" - short of escape, pardon, or successful appeal, the convicted will NOT be leaving custody. In some states like California, it sometimes means "imprisonment until we need more room, then we send you home with a GPS tracking ankle bracelet." There are various reasons as to why they do it, many of which have to do with not desiring to build more prisons.

3. Death: Used in cases where the crime is heinous and violent, such as the murder of a police officer, premeditated murder, murder in the course of another violent felony. The death sentence can only be used in cases involving the murder or death of another human being or the serial rape of minors. The real reason for the death sentence in the US, aside from the deterrence factor, is to eliminate someone for the good of society: "This person is so dangerous to society that the mere possibility that this individual might escape and kill again is unacceptable." Up until recently, was enjoying a revival as a way to punish murder more severely than, say, repeat burglary.

Now, until recently (in many states), the procedure to execute a felon took so long to get them to the death chamber that it might as well have been a sentence of "life without parole" as a Death Row inmate was more likely to die from old age than the executioner. This was because the appeals and such had to go through the normal, overloaded court system, and lawyers would use legal trickery to try to snarl up the works for years.

In Texas, we had this system as well. Then we had seven inmates escape from Death Row/maximum security prison near Kenedy, Texas. The first thing they did was come to the Dallas area, rob a sporting goods store for guns, ammo, and supplies, and murder (for no good reason) a young policeman of my acquaintance. The governor of Texas issued a dead or alive warrant for them (preferably dead); they were eventually captured in Colorado (alive, unfortunately).

Shortly after that, Texas funded and established a special district court system to speed through the appeals; its only function is to swiftly process appeals and claims for Death Row. And no, they're not just rubberstamping decisions, they're actually considering it fairly. The big difference is that the judges of this system are specifically assigned to these and only these cases, so they won't get bogged down by an overloaded schedule of other trials and motions. This has reduced the average time between sentencing and execution from 20-30 years to 5-10. Death Row is being cleared out. Other states have started to do the same thing.

Some states no longer have the death penalty, so the worst sentence you can get for any crime committed there is life without parole.

So, in summary - in most places in the US, Life without parole *means* life without parole. Death is starting to mean death, not life imprisonment. In the states that reinstated the death penalty after the Supreme Court made everyone revise or drop their laws on capital punishment, the per capita murder rate *has* gone down.

Guys... No im not protecting the robbers. They should all go in prison, but not get killed... Life is life. Couldnt care whos life is it.

Right now, in New York, if a repeat offender burglar is caught breaking into your home, he will go to jail for life. If he kills you in your home to avoid identification, the most he risks is going to jail for life, because that is also the sentence for murder in New York.

That's right - break into a house for the second or third time in New York, go to jail for life without parole. Kill someone in New York, go to jail for life without parole. Same sentence.

Since he does not want to be caught in the first place, and since the penalty does not significantly change or increase for murdering you in the course of stealing your stuff, chances are pretty good that he's going to KILL YOU because it's essentially "free" - and if you're dead, you can't identify him in a lineup or testify against him in court.

American criminals have been interviewed and studied (in prison, of course), and this is *exactly* their thinking. Is it any wonder that the law abiding now want guns to protect themselves?
 
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Dogs are easy to fool, distract, silence, or kill. Poisoned meat, for example, works very well.
 
Guys... No im not protecting the robbers. They should all go in prison, but not get killed..
It's called "natural consequences"
. Life is life. Couldnt care whos life is it.

So the guy who develops a cancer vaccine is worth just as much to society as a serial rapist, a murderer, grifter or thief? Bullshit.
 
get a dog

Win, haha. We've had our 100lb German Shepherd that hates everything for the last 12 years and no one's stolen anything.

/knows that spacial logic and therefore, largely irrelevant.
//just sayin' cause I loves me dog.
///"Lisa, I would like to buy your rock"...

Poisoned meat, for example, works very well.

:lol: what do you live in a Ninja video game?
 
The governor of Texas issued a dead or alive warrant for them

Wasn't sure if they did that anymore. Good news to hear that they do.
 
Wasn't sure if they did that anymore. Good news to hear that they do.

In Texas, Governor's Warrants are by law *always* dead or alive. However, the governor can specify different amounts for the "dead" and "alive" reward amounts. He didn't in this case, but the rules for the warrant here are "capture if possible, shoot on sight if desired".

Some people keep wanting to amend the law, but there's not a whole lot of enthusiasm for the idea.
 
^ Really?! That's so awesome in so many ways!

I hereby love Texas just that much more.
 
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