UK Times: Obama 'dangerous' for America.

[Eunos_Cosmo]

As a European that is the last thing I want, touch wood!

I would like to point out that the democrat party in the US is nothing like the European left. In my opinion the democrats are like the center-right, and the republicans are a bit more to the right...

The center leftist coalition that ran Italy until very recently consisted of among others the Italian communist party!! Communists, can you imagine...

To go back on topic, Mrs Obamas comments were probably not very smart, but it doesn't really make any difference to me with regards to my views on him.

It seems like there are a few republicans in this thread, according to you how would America change for the worse if Obama was elected? And please remember, I am probably more "patriotic" than the average American, and would give my left nut to be one. The USA will always be the land of opportunity, the land of the free and the home of the brave in my mind, and I don't really see how that is gonna change, but please educate me.

My big beef with him is that he seems to be filled completely with hollow rhetoric. Also, his and Hilary's plans for universal health care WILL NOT work in THIS country. Hospitals in California have had to close down because they were taking in too many patients from Mexico. That would increase dramatically all throughout the south if universal health care was implemented. The democrats of late seem to moving in the socialist direction, and that is not an American ideal, and should never be.

 

[argatoga]

And please remember, I am probably more "patriotic" than the average American, and would give my left nut to be one.

Just out of curiosity what is stopping you from immigrating? From your posts I gather you are more than competent with English. Not sure if this is up your alley, but I know that at least in Washington there is a demand for Italian teachers.

 

[TC]

So people should stop buying those "EXTRA big HDTV"s? Why the fuck did you buy a second car? You utter monster you could have donated that money to a charity. Hell why are you here? You should be in [insert third-world nation] and helping the people there right now!

 

[RUU-CHAMA]

MattD1zzl3 is absolutely correct. We need national health care more than we need to keep our military ahead of China and Russia, who are expanding theirs. We need to help those who cannot get health care by having the government provide it to the citizens instead of letting the free market system work. After seeing how the government runs the post office and the DMV I cannot wait for them to start managing health care for us, who are honestly too poor to take out a loan or federal aid to go to college or dropped out of school too early because big business was putting you down so you could not get a better job or suckle at welfares teat. Along with this, the Government should take a look at the profits the oil companies are pulling down and just nationalize it, like what Chavez is doing in Venezuela, then they should do the same to the banks. The government can they increase freedom of information by banning talk radio and any other medium that disagrees with them. They can install camera everywhere and pass laws about what you can or cannot eat, drink or smoke. We can protect the environment by raising taxes for C02 and giving the money to the U.N. who are trying to stop the genocide in Darfur. We should all hang pictures of our leaders in the streets and wear red caps and call each other comrades. I will stand side by side with you, comrade MattD1zzl3, to make sure this dream of our founding fathers comes to pass. Isn't Russi....America great?

 

[MattD1zzl3]

Hey, sometimes you just need to stand up for what you belive in even if its not popular. I regret nothing.

Left: The entire internet Right: Me :lol:

You should be in [insert third-world nation] and helping the people there right now!

Not my job, my duty as an american is to vote and pay taxes. And i do both of those just fine.

 

[argatoga]

Hey, sometimes you just need to stand up for what you belive in even if its not popular. I regret nothing.


Left: The entire internet Right: Me :lol:



Not my job, my duty as an american is to vote and pay taxes. And i do both of those just fine.

You still haven't addressed the point that it is OK to buy a second car, but not a big tv.

Note: I'd like to note that I am not "attacking" you for being a liberal, I don't base my personal opinions of people based on politics. This is an argument, the point is to convince the other side you are right.

 

[upyourego]

You still haven't addressed the point that it is OK to buy a second car, but not a big tv.

I think the point is it's ok to do either or both as long as you have the money available after doing your civic duty (paying taxes) and you don't cripple yourself with debt in the process.

At least that's my view as a card carrying Liberal Democrat Brit.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

You still haven't addressed the point that it is OK to buy a second car, but not a big tv.

Because the second car was dirt cheap, and came after years of not being able to afford it partially because i am actually pretty active in the department of childrens and families, both by donating money and time. I dont forget my social responsibilities for my own selfish reasons. (Which is what i see the small government, no taxes movement to be)

I never said 100 percent of your income should go to others, i just suggested we need to be less selfish on a national level.

 

[RUU-CHAMA]

Because the second car was dirt cheap, and came after years of not being able to afford it partially because i am actually pretty active in the department of childrens and families, both by donating money and time. I dont forget my social responsibilities for my own selfish reasons. (Which is what i see the small government, no taxes movement to be)

I never said 100 percent of your income should go to others, i just suggested we need to be less selfish on a national level.

We already pay taxes, have social security taken out of our paychecks, donate to charity, pay our bills etc: We now want to use a bit of whats left to buy a tv that will most likely last us 5-10 years (if we're not keeping up with the jones'). Instead, we need to be even less selfish and give more of whats left to the government again. The problem with liberal suggestions is that they are never suggestions. They never get up and say "Americans used to give a lot of money to churches and charities to handle free health care, I suggest we go back to those days." They instead say, "The government needs to pass laws to raise taxes so that we can provide mandatory health care for everyone, since anything run by the government is superior to what the private sector can do." In human history when one select group of people had all the power we longed for democracy, now we want to throw it away so that the same set of people who have sat in the government for decades and get up on each election promising what they should have do decades ago is just crazy.

 

[argatoga]

Because the second car was dirt cheap, and came after years of not being able to afford it partially because i am actually pretty active in the department of childrens and families, both by donating money and time.

Fair enough.

I dont forget my social responsibilities for my own selfish reasons. (Which is what i see the small government, no taxes movement to be)

I never said 100 percent of your income should go to others, i just suggested we need to be less selfish on a national level.

I don't think the government should force people to give to charities, let people do that on their own.

The thing is the more people spend money on "EXTRA big tv"s the bigger our economy gets, the bigger our economy gets the more jobs are created, more jobs means more money for the poor. Is it perfect? No, but that's why there are charities like the ones you donate and work at.

Those who support small government and less taxes are not selfish. I feel insulted that you just assume I am. I and my family do charity work throughout the year, don't judge a whole segment of people so easily.

I don't believe the federal government, I don't care if the states do it, should be in the charity business, especially when it can't afford it. Like I have already stated Social Security and Medicare hurt more people than it helps. I believe small local charity groups are much more efficient and responsive than a giant federal bureaucracy. A small local church does not have to pay a load of bureaucrats to feed the poor, they just buy the supplies and do it for free.

 

[British_Rover]

I am not sure if I am a typical Republican (I was against the Iraq war, don't like Bush, and pretty much disagree with most everything the NeoCons promote). I am for a smaller federal government, but I do realize that things like the FDA and FCC (before they become censors) are needed. I say let the states themselves do things like Medicare and Social Security, then I can just move to another state which is more in-line with my politics.



This is why I tend to vote Republican, although I am very disfranchised by the NeoCons who have taken the party over.

Well thats because NeoCons are not really republicans they just took over the party like you said. The republican party, and most likely the democratic party too, are in the middle of a party realignment that we are well overdue for. The last major party realignment was during the civil rights movement in the 60s and the parties are seriously overdue for a realignment.

 

[tigger]

Well it seems like Mrs. Obama doesn't have her husbands way with words. I think that the article blew it out of proportion though. Everyone says something stupid sometime.

The democrats of late seem to moving in the socialist direction, and that is not an American ideal, and should never be.

Socialism? Heh, I don't hear any Democrats calling for workers to rise up and seize control of their companies . Anywho, the beauty of our laws is that we can believe in whatever we want, unfortunately some people believe in some crazy shit, and somehow got themselves into public office ...

The last major party realignment was during the civil rights movement in the 60s and the parties are seriously overdue for a realignment.

I agree, but I really don't like where things are going. It seems like neither party is familiar with the term 'fiscal responsibility' anymore. I really want to see every US citizen able to afford health care, but I haven't heard any solid plans for that either. At this point, I'm pretty disappointed in both parties, and just disenfranchised with politics in general.

 

[anti-net]

I hope not. What is good for you isn't always good for us. Unlike our democrats, I do not want to be burdened with high taxes and be an indentured servant to any government. I do want an America with a protectionist attitude; Had we continued that through the 1940's, what would Europe be like now? I do not want a monarchy that the Clinton's envision, nor a socialist regime that Obama has in store.

Also, is it not Europeans who are annoyed that Europe is being "Americanized"? So, with your thinking (if I may), your way is the right way? We should be like you?

Immigrants from Europe did not one day decide they were bored and wanted to live somewhere else. They left in droves for a country that promised nothing but this: that with hard work and determination, all people can make a better future for themselves. That the individual spirit is praised, and all castes and sects and other stupid, archaic divisions that made them nameless and worthless in their native country is stripped away, that all people who live in these United States are equal under the law, that everyone in America is free to do what they want, not by the determination of man, but by the will of God. Or in other words,



That is the America I want back again!

Even I agree with that, and I'm quite a lefty

(Note - I did write a nice post about why but it disappeared (Time paradox or something) and I can't be arsed to write it again)

 

[thedguy]

The USA will always be the land of opportunity, the land of the free and the home of the brave in my mind, and I don't really see how that is gonna change, but please educate me.

Man we sold you that shit hook, line, and sinker didn't we

Simple, we cut the shit out of the military and defence industry. Or do you think bill clinton just did that to piss the right off?
I'd rather see 9/11 happen 100 times more then see a single child (or adult for that matter) die of a disease when the government could have footed the bill to pay for his hospital bills. This Jingoism and 1800's economic theory is in the past, the left wing is clearly forming the blueprint for the future.

If we would have stuck to our founding fathers beliefs on the subject, 9/11 likely wouldn't have happened. The policy being "trade with everyone, war with no one." But instead after WW2 we decided the England needed help getting Iran's recently nationalized oil company back into their hands, and help dealing with Israel.

My big beef with him is that he seems to be filled completely with hollow rhetoric. Also, his and Hilary's plans for universal health care WILL NOT work in THIS country. Hospitals in California have had to close down because they were taking in too many patients from Mexico. That would increase dramatically all throughout the south if universal health care was implemented. The democrats of late seem to moving in the socialist direction, and that is not an American ideal, and should never be.

A large part of our health care problem is not so just the drug and insurance companies, but actually because hospitals treat anyone, even those who won't/can't pay. The costs have sky rocketed to help pay for all those that can't, along with all the technology we have in our hospitals amongst other things.

 

[Hatmouse]

everyone in America is free to do what they want, not by the determination of man, but by the will of God.

Wasn't a separation of religion and state one of the founding principles of the us though?

 

[Cryptopygia]

^ Actually, the separation of church and state is, technically, non-existent. The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." the amendment was added to guarantee against the founding of a national church, akin to the Church of England. It states the freedom to practice your choice of religion, but it seems to have been taken as "The government and religion are separate."

 

[Jay]

Wasn't a separation of religion and state one of the founding principles of the us though?

That is my belief actually, that God gave us big brains, thus free will.

 

[phuckingduck]

^ Actually, the separation of church and state is, technically, non-existent. The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." the amendment was added to guarantee against the founding of a national church, akin to the Church of England. It states the freedom to practice your choice of religion, but it seems to have been taken as "The government and religion are separate."

Just the same as the 2nd amendment and its whole 'Right to bear arms....to form a militia'. It's been taken to mean you have the right to bear arms with or without the militia.

 

[tigger]

It states the freedom to practice your choice of religion, but it seems to have been taken as "The government and religion are separate."

Well at least according to Thomas Jefferson, that was the intent behind it. And of course, whenever the government 'endorses' a religion (ie 10 commandments in front of a court house or the like), people can bitch that they're supporting one religion over others. Which on the one hand I really like, but it can make for some stupid court cases.

 

[TC]

The 10 Commandments are the most famous and well known list of laws the world has ever seen. Placing them outside a court of law doesn't mean they're advocating religion. They're just as much a historical object as they are a religious one.

I think people just take the whole "separation of church and State" too far. I even heard a story about a school that wouldn't teach their students about the Declaration of Independence because it spoke of God. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.