[02x07] September 4, 2011

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Beech18

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Emphasis added. Do you really believe that load of unadulterated, moronic, idiotic, limp-wristed bullshit you typed? :idiot:

If they really wanted to see James dead, why the hell did Jeremy say in interviews that he was concerned they were going to have a repeat of what happened with Richard after his crash in 2006? Why did the all rush straight to James' side after he fell? You wouldn't do that to someone you wanted to see dead. You'd just leave the person there. What you saw was a rare moment when they weren't "in character". No way in hell would any of them take a bump on the head lightly.

It was a freak accident. They really didn't see it coming. Not the crew. Not Richard. Not Jeremy. And not James.

Meanwhile, some of you need to acquaint yourselves with the concept of "kayfabe".
You need to acquaint yourself with basic off road recovery techniques as you are blissfully ignorant on the subject..

Bullshit? Freak accident? Hardly! Do you actually believe the BBC would traverse the badlands of the middle east off road without a backup crew including security, mechanics and off road experts? Nah, it was just Jeremy, Richard, James and a lone cameraman with a GoPro.

Anybody with 30 seconds experience in off road recovery can list several dangerous errors committed in the minutes leading up to May's injury.

From memory:

The stuck vehicle was nose up on a slope at about 30 to 40 degrees from horizontal. The tow vehicle was siting above the stuck vehicle in a horizontal position. The angle between the two was too large to attempt a safe recovery.

Viewed from above, the tow vehicle was pointed 30 to 45 degrees to the right of the stuck vehicle. Again, this angle was too large to attempt a safe recovery.

The tow hooks on both cars were not recovery points. The towline was attached to metal loops used to secure the cars on a ship's deck or car carrier. These are not reinforced recovery points and are not rated to be used as such. I was surprised that at least one didn't snap off.

I seem to recall the recovery strap was elastic. An elastic strap stores an enormous amount of kinetic energy which can easily exceed three or four times the vehicle's weight. And, that's only if both vehicles are close in line with each other, not 30 degrees off in two different planes. An elastic strap is used to build and store kinetic energy to recover vehicles from mud or sand. You stretch it out under tension and then it snaps the vehicle out oif the mud. A non elastic strap was called for in this situation.

The strap should have been put under light tension before starting the actual recovery, without excess length laying on the ground

When recovering a vehicle NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO STAND BETWEEN THE TWO VEHICLES OR WITHIN TWO LENGTHS OF THE RECOVERY STRAP IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

Recovery straps need to have a tarp or blanket draped over the midpoint in case the hardware on either end breaks to dampen the resulting flight. The hardware on the end of a recovery strap can fly at 500 MPH and go through sheet metal, windows and humans.

Proper safety procedures towing vehicle have its trunk lid raised as a shield with any available items stacked high in the truck to form a barrier between flying hardware and the driver. Likewise, the stuck vehicle should have its hood raised in front of the windshield to protect its driver.

May was standing between the two vehicles past a line drawn between the two. A first grader could easily see that when the slack on the strap was taken up, it would knock May off his feet.


Several people could have been killed, yet no one seemed to have noticed any safety concerns. I think they were hoping for something spectacular on video. People have ripped bumpers off, bent pick up truck frames, pulled bodies off military armored vehicle leaving the chassis stuck in mud and sent 3 pound steel shackles and 10 pound hitch balls flying through vehicles at 300+ MPH.

Recovery is probably the single most dangerous activity in off roading.

Search "off road recovery" on Youtube for stupid recovery attempts. The TopGear scene fits right in.

The TopGear crew was either supremely stupid, ignorant or just wanted to see James May kill himself.

Here's the right way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM

Here's the wrong way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lMxYnGIrw
 
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shellygrrl

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Beech, again, YOU. DON'T. GET IT.

You can take all the precautions in the world (despite TG's general loathing of Health and Safety, they do take the necessary precautions, because they're not stupid, because they DON'T want to see anyone get hurt or killed), do everything by the book, and something can still go wrong. And (obviously) something did go wrong.

You accusing the crew and presenters of stupidity or ignorance = bullshit.

You accusing the crew et al of wanting to see James get killed = heartless, pathetic, and downright idiotic.
 

Ryotsu

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....and pretty much question why these three folks were even brought together in the first place. I thought one of the continuing arguments about the show is that the show's hosts need to be a cohesive chummy unit, like the three hosts on the UK show? Yet, we have two of the hosts picking on another host for some "abnormality" or "quirk." It's one thing if it's done "naturally" (i.e. Clarkson ramming his crap-can into May during a challenge, Hammond and May sabotaging Clarkson somehow), but to blatantly advertise the bullying? Yeah, not cool.
What? Aren't they constantly saying that they hate each other? We all know that they don't, but it makes the show a little bit more entertaining. My friends and I tell each other what morons we are for whatever thing.

Then you should get more friends. This is normal. Any other guys agree with me on this? Anyone? Bueller?
Here!

Wait a minute... I've just noticed that the majority of these posts are way off topic. Talking about how people are clearly homicidal because they made a mistake is retarded, and more importantly, belongs in another thread. :offtopic:
 
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Initial_B

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You need to acquaint yourself with basic off road recovery techniques as you are blissfully ignorant on the subject..

Bullshit? Freak accident? Hardly! Do you actually believe the BBC would traverse the badlands of the middle east off road without a backup crew including security, mechanics and off road experts? Nah, it was just Jeremy, Richard, James and a lone cameraman with a GoPro.

Anybody with 30 seconds experience in off road recovery can list several dangerous errors committed in the minutes leading up to May's injury.

From memory:

The stuck vehicle was nose up on a slope at about 30 to 40 degrees from horizontal. The tow vehicle was siting above the stuck vehicle in a horizontal position. The angle between the two was too large to attempt a safe recovery.

Viewed from above, the tow vehicle was pointed 30 to 45 degrees to the right of the stuck vehicle. Again, this angle was too large to attempt a safe recovery.

The tow hooks on both cars were not recovery points. The towline was attached to metal loops used to secure the cars on a ship's deck or car carrier. These are not reinforced recovery points and are not rated to be used as such. I was surprised that at least one didn't snap off.

I seem to recall the recovery strap was elastic. An elastic strap stores an enormous amount of kinetic energy which can easily exceed three or four times the vehicle's weight. And, that's only if both vehicles are close in line with each other, not 30 degrees off in two different planes. An elastic strap is used to build and store kinetic energy to recover vehicles from mud or sand. You stretch it out under tension and then it snaps the vehicle out oif the mud. A non elastic strap was called for in this situation.

The strap should have been put under light tension before starting the actual recovery, without excess length laying on the ground

When recovering a vehicle NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO STAND BETWEEN THE TWO VEHICLES OR WITHIN TWO LENGTHS OF THE RECOVERY STRAP IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

Recovery straps need to have a tarp or blanket draped over the midpoint in case the hardware on either end breaks to dampen the resulting flight. The hardware on the end of a recovery strap can fly at 500 MPH and go through sheet metal, windows and humans.

Proper safety procedures towing vehicle have its trunk lid raised as a shield with any available items stacked high in the truck to form a barrier between flying hardware and the driver. Likewise, the stuck vehicle should have its hood raised in front of the windshield to protect its driver.

May was standing between the two vehicles past a line drawn between the two. A first grader could easily see that when the slack on the strap was taken up, it would knock May off his feet.


Several people could have been killed, yet no one seemed to have noticed any safety concerns. I think they were hoping for something spectacular on video. People have ripped bumpers off, bent pick up truck frames, pulled bodies off military armored vehicle leaving the chassis stuck in mud and sent 3 pound steel shackles and 10 pound hitch balls flying through vehicles at 300+ MPH.

Recovery is probably the single most dangerous activity in off roading.

Search "off road recovery" on Youtube for stupid recovery attempts. The TopGear scene fits right in.

The TopGear crew was either supremely stupid, ignorant or just wanted to see James May kill himself.

Here's the right way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM

Here's the wrong way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lMxYnGIrw
thank you Captain Hindsight...
 

Beech18

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Beech, again, YOU. DON'T. GET IT.

You can take all the precautions in the world (despite TG's general loathing of Health and Safety, they do take the necessary precautions, because they're not stupid, because they DON'T want to see anyone get hurt or killed), do everything by the book, and something can still go wrong. And (obviously) something did go wrong.

You accusing the crew and presenters of stupidity or ignorance = bullshit.

You accusing the crew et al of wanting to see James get killed = heartless, pathetic, and downright idiotic.
These clods took no safety precautions. NONE. They didn't do anything by the book. The book is still in the London Public Library. Since you didn't bother to dispute my allegation of off road experts being part of the support crew, how do you explain it?

It's obvious you have never traveled one foot off road nor recovered any vehicle.
 

Initial_B

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So, I am correct! Thank you.
you would think so...but no. it's easy (very) to point out the flaws of an incident AFTER it happened. but be honest, did you think in that very moment you first saw this clip, the above you mentioned ran in the few seconds prior to James' fall? i bet my life it didn't pop in your head.


it was an accident. no one is that foolish to kill someone on TELEVISION.
 

Ryotsu

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These clods took no safety precautions. NONE. They didn't do anything by the book. The book is still in the London Public Library. Since you didn't bother to dispute my allegation of off road experts being part of the support crew, how do you explain it?

It's obvious you have never traveled one foot off road nor recovered any vehicle.
Listen to me. Stop being such a douche. I don't know if they would bring dozens of specialists everywhere they go, but this isn't the place to discus this. Go make a thread about it, if you're so concerned about it.
 

Beech18

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you would think so...but no. it's easy (very) to point out the flaws of an incident AFTER it happened. but be honest, did you think in that very moment you first saw this clip, the above you mentioned ran in the few seconds prior to James' fall? i bet my life it didn't pop in your head.


it was an accident. no one is that foolish to kill someone on TELEVISION.
I used to think some scenes in TopGear are setup (like may looking down the barrel of a shotgun) because nobody could be that stupid.

I'll bet you and everyone else who chose to criticize my posts have never recovered a vehicle off road. Further, none of you have responded to my point that the TGUK crew would not be out in the desert of the middle east without off road experts. No off road expert would allow what happened. Where were the pros? Making tea?

From the moment they decided to recover the car stuck with its nose in the air, I thought something would go horribly wrong. My F250 FX4 Powerstroke spends a fair amount of time off road. I had to recover it out of axle deep bentonite mud once and I have recovered several 4X4 pickups weighing over 10,000 lbs. with it. I know first hand what forces are involved when using a snatch or regular strap to recover vehicles. I know because I took the time to learn how to do it correctly using the proper equipment before I ever drove 1 mile off road. I have refused to recover vehicles without proper recovery points or vehicle that were stuck in such a way to make a safe recovery impossible ( I gave those drivers a ride to the nearest town).

When you drive off road in northwest Wyoming, you bet your life on being able to extricate yourself before your food and luck run out. Injuring yourself out in the middle of nowhere can kill you.

I suggest you show the Christmas Special segment to any friend who off roads and you will see him or her cringe as the two cars are hooked up. Don't forget what Sir Ranulpf Fiennes said about the three presenters, "... and you lot are apparently ignorant."
 
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bryanbeachboy1970

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Don't forget what Sir Ranulpf Fiennes said about the three presenters, "... and you lot are apparently ignorant."
Chill Beech. I'm sure you've seen Clarkson's review of the F150, and during that review he went on about how England and America were different, about how a big pickup is not necessary in England, etc. You're talking about how off-roading experts would know better, but we're talking about three chaps with minimum off-roading experience (especially May) who had an accident. I know they had security added to their camera team, but we don't know if they had any off-roading experts to assist or not. Sure they've been seen in other episodes, but that doesn't mean they've been there for every film.

The purpose of that film was that the boys decided to go off the beaten path in three small convertibles, a silly premise but not one that is completely unreasonable. You mention northwest Wyoming which is cool and wet in the summer (assuming we're talking about the area near the Tetons and Yellowstone) and freezing and snowy/icy in the winter, but the climate and terrain of Syria does not even compare; the semi-arid landscape of Syria is generally compacted soil, with only occasional areas of sand, rock and loose soil. During the summer here in Kansas (especially this summer, sheesh!) it is somewhat similar, and I've driven my old Le Baron across fields with no problem. But I'm sure I'm more careful and aware when driving off road of my car's limitations (being one generation off the farm) than three dudes from England who are basically metropolitan sorts with some very mild off-roading experience in Range Rovers and quads.

So now that we know how you feel about the Three Wise Men special from TGUK, how's about you tell us what you think about Rut and Adam hazing Tanner by challenging his driving skills (penis) with various silly challenges?
 

ja404

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Man, this thread smells like piss. This episode is going to be awesome, can't wait to see if Tanner can actually drift an LA Metro bus.
 

Ryotsu

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Why would I listen to anybody from Poway who drives a V6 Mustang?
Listen Bitch18, I'm not going to discus this with you here. Please, everyone else, let's just ignore him from now on, maybe that way he'll go away. You're posts are obnoxious and way off topic.

Back to the topic of this thread. I think it'll be a great episode, guys beat up on each other all the time. Also, from everything I've seen, they weren't thinking 'Man, I hate Tanner, let's make him cry!' which would have made a dumb episode. Instead, they were saying 'I bet you can't...' whatever, like drift a bus. I'm betting that Tanner can do most of what they challenge him to do, we'll see some cool driving skills, everyone will get to know the hosts a little bit better, and we all have a great episode to replay while we wait for season 3.
 

The Spie

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Anyone who's still complaining about this, please remember that TGAUS did something very similar in its Season 2, when James and Warren challenged Steve, who said he could drift anything, to drift some very inappropriate vehicles (a stretch limo and a Mister Whippy truck). There was no malice involved in that, only a test of Steve's ability as a professional driver. This is going to be more of the same (and more of the same from the "they're stealing stuff from other Top Gears" crowd).

And, Beech: Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
 

Initial_B

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I used to think some scenes in TopGear are setup (like may looking down the barrel of a shotgun) because nobody could be that stupid.

I'll bet you and everyone else who chose to criticize my posts have never recovered a vehicle off road. Further, none of you have responded to my point that the TGUK crew would not be out in the desert of the middle east without off road experts. No off road expert would allow what happened. Where were the pros? Making tea?

From the moment they decided to recover the car stuck with its nose in the air, I thought something would go horribly wrong. My F250 FX4 Powerstroke spends a fair amount of time off road. I had to recover it out of axle deep bentonite mud once and I have recovered several 4X4 pickups weighing over 10,000 lbs. with it. I know first hand what forces are involved when using a snatch or regular strap to recover vehicles. I know because I took the time to learn how to do it correctly using the proper equipment before I ever drove 1 mile off road. I have refused to recover vehicles without proper recovery points or vehicle that were stuck in such a way to make a safe recovery impossible ( I gave those drivers a ride to the nearest town).

When you drive off road in northwest Wyoming, you bet your life on being able to extricate yourself before your food and luck run out. Injuring yourself out in the middle of nowhere can kill you.

I suggest you show the Christmas Special segment to any friend who off roads and you will see him or her cringe as the two cars are hooked up. Don't forget what Sir Ranulpf Fiennes said about the three presenters, "... and you lot are apparently ignorant."
again, thank you Cpt. Hindsight for what is now, worthless input...
 
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