[06x09] July 24th, 2005

[watto]

And it can't do 155mph anyways... Bloody gentleman's agreement, thank God Porsche never succumbed to that!

 

[Hatmouse]

The mclaren SLR is slower than a 645ci on nordshleife. Once again, the top gear test track is small.

Please, Please tell me you are joking.

 

[3Colin]

"The mclaren SLR is slower than a 645ci on nordshleife..."

I hear that statistic a whole lot, but I doubt it. I did have a rather full list of lap times for the Nurburgring. The McLaren Mercedes SLR came in at 7:40 in the hands of at least one driver: Klaus Ludwig (for Auto Bild), a famous touring car champion. This is also the time of the Porsche Carrera GT... coincidence? =) I'll try and find the source of the list, but I'm pretty sure these times are valid and proveable.

No one said the SL55 was a good handling car, certainly not the TG track. The numbers (and assessment) for the CLS and SLK are quite different, though. I think Mercedes is serious about handling now, and their new direction reflects this...

 

[Tha_bounce]

Ok These stats are not definitive. I pulled them of some car websites.
I couldnt find stats on the CLS weight as well as the GT3 and power output. Forget the GT3, because it was a wet time , so it quicker. But the point is, the M5 is a very heavy car. The only thing heavier is the Vanquish S. Yes it has 500 bhp, but i bet the power to weight ratio is not as good as the others below it on the lap tme board. My point - its a great car for the price, because you get the luxury and the power. Its time is respectable if not astonishing, considering as well the Stigs lap was pretty untidy as some have pointed out.

Cars---------------------------------------- Weight--------Power

Bmw M5 -----------------------------------1830 kilo / 4034.5 lbs----507 bhp
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Coupe------------1470 kilo / 3240.8 lbs ---400 bhp
Lotus Exige---------------------------------875 kilo / 1929 lbs-------189 bhp
Ferrari 575 GTC---------------------------1730 kilo / 3814 lbs ------540 hp
Aston Martin Vanquish S------------------1875 kilo / 4133.7 lbs----520 bhp
Mercedes CLS
Porshe 911 GT3

To the guy who says if they wanted a car that could do 207 they'd want it to look like it could. Well you clearly dont fall in the M's target group because the whole point of the M's are the have their cars look like " fat lump of lard's" and yet can do 207.

 

[boafan]

I guess i'll poke around for that as well, I was pretty sure it's true but my apologies on that for not providing good evidence.

 

[MixtriX]

top gear tickets have a 19 year waiting list... raheel must be kicking himself

 

[Leppy]

^^^

Pretty sure he was joking....

 

[subymaster]

Well, you have to factor most of the things Tiff said in his review. The M5 is one fat lard of a car with all that luxury and safety equipment on it. It's not the tires... if it was it wouldn't be too much. Upgrade the tires on the CLS55 and it'd post similar times to the M5 as it stands.

The Evo has standard amenties, weighs a whole lot less and screams out of corners with every acronym under the sun helping it's AWD. You also forget acceleration that's just as fast as the M5. And with the Evo IX posting 4 seconds faster than the VIII MR on the Nordschiefe, the Evo always is a performance bargain it was designed to be.

Not the tires? Then why did the stig have oversteer at all the corner exits, and ZERO undertseer at turn in? If the tires were fine, then there is no way that was the fastest possible lap with the M5. As stated, it was a VERY untidy lap and my only guess is with shot rear tires its the most stigy could squeeze from the car.

And 4 second on the ring is not giant considering its length....23km long? Would people be raving about a car that only does .34seconds better on a 2km track than the previous version.......?

 

[zenkidori]

Tires aren't the only possible culprit, an aggressive rear diff or stiff rear suspension would cause the same things to happen, that's how I had my 240 set up.

 

[GodGell]

Bmw M5 -----------------------------------1830 kg----507 bhp
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Coupe------------1470 kg---400 bhp
Lotus Exige---------------------------------875 kg-------189 bhp
Ferrari 575 GTC---------------------------1730 kg ------540 hp
Aston Martin Vanquish S------------------1875 kg----520 bhp

that means:
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Coupe: 272 hp/ton
Lotus Exige: 216 hp/ton
Ferrari 575 GTC: 312 hp/ton
Aston Martin Vanquish S: 277

and just adding my data, the original Diablo VTTT had 1100hp and weighed a bit less than 1600kg. that's 687 hp/ton, more than twice the Ferrari 575. just dunno why do people keep saying the McLaren F1 (official top speed 386) or the K?nigsegg (official top speed 391) is the fastest, as the VTTT's top speed is 410 - and that's not the 1100hp version, the VTTT that does 410 has only got 752hp (537hp/ton as it's only 1400kg).

To the guy who says if they wanted a car that could do 207 they'd want it to look like it could. Well you clearly dont fall in the M's target group because the whole point of the M's are the have their cars look like " fat lump of lard's" and yet can do 207.

erm... wtf? my dad's big bulky opel meriva (i know.. it's embarassing) almost does 200, now wtf has an m5 got to do with that kind of crawling?

 

[ThwartedEfforts]

Now, forgive me if what I say is a bit more harsh than what is usually said on these boards:

Stop your pussy-footed bitching, whining and moaning. Watch Fifth Gear if you want a show that is solely factual; Tiff is a pro driver.. Read a magazine. Read articles on the internet. TV is for entertainment.

Just stop your stupid whining. If you want something else, find something else.

God damn you are a waste of oxygen.

Oxygen? What, you breathe faster when you're typing or something?

(There's no need to be quite so rude and no need to quote the entire message. This isn't usenet. Most of your insults didn't make sense - where was he "pussy-footing"? - and if none of us posted our thoughts and opinions it'd be pretty quiet in here.)

The guy you responded to had a point: Top Gear isn't really a motoring show any more, it's more an hour of light entertainment. I still enjoy it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start doing phone-ins and book a house band to play bebop when the guests walk on.

What I don't like is the way the factual reviews have less and less facts in them each week, and the way they seem to spend too long doing all the boring stuff that doesn't relate to cars. As a result this petrolhead is finding it a bit tired. The M5 slot was totally predictable - if you've been watching Clarkson since 1989 you didn't need to be clairvoyant to know what he was going to say next.

On the upside, it was better than the previous week's episode. Which was dismal.

 

[Porei]

To the guy who says if they wanted a car that could do 207 they'd want it to look like it could. Well you clearly dont fall in the M's target group because the whole point of the M's are the have their cars look like " fat lump of lard's" and yet can do 207.

erm... wtf? my dad's big bulky opel meriva (i know.. it's embarassing) almost does 200, now wtf has an m5 got to do with that kind of crawling?

I think you have a mph - km/h mistake. Your dad's Meriva may do 200 km/h, but the M5 may do 200 mph, which is about 300 km/h. Comprende?

 

[GodGell]

I think you have a mph - km/h mistake. Your dad's Meriba may do 200 km/h, but the M5 may do 200 mph, which is about 300 km/h. Comprende?

oh, 300kmh is more like it. i dunno why people keep using the stupid mph, and when they do, why don't they warn others about it... just like they do on TG. britain's officially adopted the metric system 25 years ago as they realised it works unlike the ones they and americans used. but the problem is both 3 presenters on TG are older than 25.

 

[CyberMonkey]

I guess EVERYBODY there uses their own system instead of the metric system...

But in fact only "miles to the gallon" is really difficult to calculate by head

 

[GodGell]

I guess EVERYBODY there uses their own system instead of the metric system...

But in fact only "miles to the gallon" is really difficult to calculate by head

it really sucks.
1 mile is 1.609 km, that's easy to convert, but it's still annoying..

 

[hajj]

I think you have a mph - km/h mistake. Your dad's Meriba may do 200 km/h, but the M5 may do 200 mph, which is about 300 km/h. Comprende?

oh, 300kmh is more like it. i dunno why people keep using the stupid mph, and when they do, why don't they warn others about it... just like they do on TG. britain's officially adopted the metric system 25 years ago as they realised it works unlike the ones they and americans used. but the problem is both 3 presenters on TG are older than 25.

They are still using miles/hour to measure speed. Britain only switched in certain areas like mass, distance, volume, area and so on...

It isnt a big deal to calculate between miles and kilometres 1,609m is one mile!! So 155mph = 250 kph

 

[GodGell]

I think you have a mph - km/h mistake. Your dad's Meriba may do 200 km/h, but the M5 may do 200 mph, which is about 300 km/h. Comprende?

oh, 300kmh is more like it. i dunno why people keep using the stupid mph, and when they do, why don't they warn others about it... just like they do on TG. britain's officially adopted the metric system 25 years ago as they realised it works unlike the ones they and americans used. but the problem is both 3 presenters on TG are older than 25.

They are still using miles/hour to measure speed. Britain only switched in certain areas like mass, distance, volume, area and so on...

"miles" and kilometers are both distance..

It isnt a big deal to calculate between miles and kilometres 1,609m is one mile!! So 155mph = 250 kph

read my previous post

 

[hajj]

Yes I know messed that one up but they use metres in some cases, not for long distances though. But do you really think the Brits are going to change their way of measurement?? Most people still measure their own mass in stone. It really takes a while to change to the metric system. The metric system seems more logic though!

 

[GodGell]

Yes I know messed that one up but they use metres in some cases, not for long distances though. But do you really think the Brits are going to change their way of measurement?? Most people still measure their own mass in stone. It really takes a while to change to the metric system. The metric system seems more logic though!

some people still use "how many rolls can i get for %d amount of money" instead of using the local currency. logic doesn't seem too appealing to people nowadays.

 

[CyberMonkey]

It doesn't only seem more logic, it is more logic . But I hope, as I suppose the metric system is teached in school, it will be picked up eventually after a couple of generations.