[06x09] July 24th, 2005

GodGell

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audichickoholics. :D


about the supra vs 300zx thing, suck! let's say either it's a supra or nissan's copy of it. :D
 

Volvo_S70

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Jostyrostelli said:
wescx said:
Plissken said:
jarborra said:
Except the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII MR FQ-320 right? That's only ?29,999 and a car that I hoped a 507bhp ?62,000 BMW M5 would beat.

Difference being the Evo would need a service after every lap and replacement tyres every lap and a half.

Did seem a bad lap from Stig though. Very untidy.

(Oh, first post. Hello all!)

Hello!
:thumbsup:

Hahahaha great avatar! But I think you could have had a better screenshot where she looks hotter though! 8) :lol:

This was the avatar:
147850658042e559671d695.jpg

OMG, cant believe u people are serious..... :cry: u think she's hot??? ohh...dear, guys...jessica alba is hot, leppy's girl from his sig is hot but not her!! How do u guys define hotness? But i heard a lot of people saying that Sabine Schmitz is hot or any girl that can oversteer is hot (!?)... uugghh... :thumbsdown:.....but then again, everyone has its own views of hotness i guess...
 

Spare-Flair

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GodGell said:
zenkidori said:
How can you not see that it's a 300?

a Supra is very similar in shape. :)

Come on, how can you possibly think that? They are nothing alike! A 300ZX has more in common in shape with that Diablo in your sig...in fact.. It has the same parts! Lamborghini uses 300ZX headlights they bought from Nissan.

fairladyz99blue2.JPG
 

Volvo_S70

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Another newbie, like me...

:welcome:
 

GodGell

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the 300zx headlights are only on the Diablo '99 and VT, and were only adopted because they make "flip-out lights" unneccessary yet they still look good.

well, they aren't that similar as in the TG, but with similar body kits it's quite easy to mistake them. especially at night. :)

300ZX%20Blue%204.jpg

5743_8850.JPG
 

Spare-Flair

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Volvo_S70 said:
Another newbie, like me...

:welcome:

Thanks :)
I should have registered on this forum ages ago, I've just been lazy. I finally decided to tonight because I could name a track in the "What's that Song?" forum and also to talk about the 300ZX, the Diablo, the M5, and the Evo in this thread.

Suffice it to say, there are two Evo's higher than the M5 on that list, the FQ 320 and the FQ 400. Sure they might need some maintenance and maybe an oil change and new rubber...and are ugly too...but remember Jeremy said that the Stig broke the differential on an M5 and had to be towed away. After Jeremy drove a different M5 it, all sort of failure warning lights were lighting up on him so the M5 seems to have some serious problems across various models so you can't attribute to problems simply to the single car and the single lap as being "bad". Remember, on Top Gear they often have many multiples of the cars they test and they run many multiples of laps and usually post their best one!
 

GodGell

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Spare-Flair said:
remember Jeremy said that the Stig broke the differential on an M5 and had to be towed away. After Jeremy drove a different M5 it, all sort of failure warning lights were lighting up on him so the M5 seems to have some serious problems across various models so you can't attribute to problems simply to the single car and the single lap as being "bad".

remember how twitchy the M5 was when exiting corners in the Stig lap? it's possibly the rear diff's fault. another one has already broken - it seems BMW needs to redesign their new diff!
 

fnp

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Next week we should get the Monaro (mentioned after the Cadillac CTS-V review) and the restored Mini (from restoration ripoff in the last season). I have a funny feeling we won't see either :(
 

stealthx32

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subymaster said:
Tires aren't the only possible culprit, an aggressive rear diff or stiff rear suspension would cause the same things to happen, that's how I had my 240 set up.

like i said before, no major carmaker in their right minds, especially bmw, would give a car that kind of oversteer bias from the factory....it would make for an extremely unsafe vehicle in the hands of the average joe. but i do understand what you are saying.....i just find that possibility highly unlikely

The traction control was off. All oversteer situations occured while ON the throttle, known as power oversteer. Perhaps you've never driven a RWD car before?

There's this concept. Its called the grip circle. When you're at the limit of lateral grip, there is no way to get any longitudinal grip. And the same applies vice versa. When you're cornering @ the tire limit, and you try to brake, you WILL understeer. If you try to get on the gas, the tail WILL step out.

So, on corner exit, you can't be completely on the throttle (yes, even with the snazzy differential that BMW can't even get right), because if you try and put down power (a.k.a. induce a longitudinal load on the tire), the tire will just let go since you've overcome the ultimate grip of the tire. Most traction controls on fly-by-wire throttle bodies will stop you from doing this when its still enabled. All seasons or not, it shouldn't change the balance of the car (unless different tires are being run front & rear).

So. Try and control 507 hp with the three inches of travel available (with two tons of mass + the added inertia at speed loading the two plebian sized tires) and lemme know how well you can modulate the throttle, mmkay?



Anyways, Tiff's review was much better. He was more worried about driving the car than complaining...something Jeremy's quite good at. 8)
 

subymaster

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stealthx32 said:
The traction control was off. All oversteer situations occured while ON the throttle, known as power oversteer. Perhaps you've never driven a RWD car before?

There's this concept. Its called the grip circle. When you're at the limit of lateral grip, there is no way to get any longitudinal grip. And the same applies vice versa. When you're cornering @ the tire limit, and you try to brake, you WILL understeer. If you try to get on the gas, the tail WILL step out.

So, on corner exit, you can't be completely on the throttle (yes, even with the snazzy differential that BMW can't even get right), because if you try and put down power (a.k.a. induce a longitudinal load on the tire), the tire will just let go since you've overcome the ultimate grip of the tire. Most traction controls on fly-by-wire throttle bodies will stop you from doing this when its still enabled. All seasons or not, it shouldn't change the balance of the car (unless different tires are being run front & rear).

So. Try and control 507 hp with the three inches of travel available (with two tons of mass + the added inertia at speed loading the two plebian sized tires) and lemme know how well you can modulate the throttle, mmkay?



Anyways, Tiff's review was much better. He was more worried about driving the car than complaining...something Jeremy's quite good at. 8)

Dont talk to me like a 3 year old. If you have ever watched any other TG episodes you would know the Stig has a very clean driving style. When possible he always keeps the car in check and keeps oversteer at a minimum (duh he wants the fastest lap). However, dont you find it odd that he had oversteer at every corner exit...and no undertseer at entry?? Your little lesson was great, thanks for explaining something we already know. What you failed to address was the fact that power oversteer is incredibly easy to induce with shot rear tires and good fronts. Hence the reason the Stig chose to go in hot and exit with a bit of oversteer.

The stig has managed better with far more hairy cars and saying his lap was bad because he cant modulate the throttle on a BMW M car is laughable.
 

fnp

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stealthx32 said:
Anyways, Tiff's review was much better. He was more worried about driving the car than complaining...something Jeremy's quite good at. 8)

But that's what makes us love Jeremy so much!
 

stealthx32

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subymaster said:
What you failed to address was the fact that power oversteer is incredibly easy to induce with shot rear tires and good fronts. Hence the reason the Stig chose to go in hot and exit with a bit of oversteer.

The stig has managed better with far more hairy cars and saying his lap was bad because he cant modulate the throttle on a BMW M car is laughable.

Right. Like M cars are the manifestation of the infallible automobile. :roll: Seriously. The Stig didn't understeer into the corners because he's a GOOD DRIVER. And who said the rear tires were shot? It was just some stab-in-the-dark speculation that someone posted here, no?

The quickest way around any track would obviously be where you're at the traction limit all around the track, correct? In something more purpose built, you'll be able to feel the rear slide when rolling on the throttle the instant you breach that traction limit, and you either lessen your steering angle or back off the throttle slightly. In the M5, everything is delayed, #1 by the need to make the car a 4 door saloon (making everything more compliant) and #2 by the need to bend the laws of physics by trying to get 4000 lbs of mass to change direction quickly.

Its a 507 hp, two ton saloon with a saloon wheelbase. Its not gonna be the ultimate driving machine. There is no way that it will have the same chassis mannerisms and driver communication of a purpose built machine. Watch the CLS test...I'm sure it'll be quite similar (although I believe even MB built a lighter car than BMW did in this case).
 

jayjaya29

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Sorry if this is repost or something, but how does a freaking V-10 redline at 9k!!!! I mean, damn, thats sweet.

Oh and BTW that M5 clip was really entertaining.

EDIT: Audichick is ugly. :thumbsdown:
 

osabros

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fnp said:
Next week we should get the Monaro (mentioned after the Cadillac CTS-V review) and the restored Mini (from restoration ripoff in the last season). I have a funny feeling we won't see either :(

im dying to see how the mini came out...
and i doubt theyll do a whole road test on the new monaro.... its only got a new engine so i think the stig will drive it round the track and thats it...
 

subymaster

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Right. Like M cars are the manifestation of the infallible automobile. :roll: Seriously. The Stig didn't understeer into the corners because he's a GOOD DRIVER. And who said the rear tires were shot? It was just some stab-in-the-dark speculation that someone posted here, no?

The quickest way around any track would obviously be where you're at the traction limit all around the track, correct? In something more purpose built, you'll be able to feel the rear slide when rolling on the throttle the instant you breach that traction limit, and you either lessen your steering angle or back off the throttle slightly. In the M5, everything is delayed, #1 by the need to make the car a 4 door saloon (making everything more compliant) and #2 by the need to bend the laws of physics by trying to get 4000 lbs of mass to change direction quickly.

Its a 507 hp, two ton saloon with a saloon wheelbase. Its not gonna be the ultimate driving machine. There is no way that it will have the same chassis mannerisms and driver communication of a purpose built machine. Watch the CLS test...I'm sure it'll be quite similar (although I believe even MB built a lighter car than BMW did in this case).

hahaha, you really have no clue. The M5 is heavy, but no more heavy than a lot of other luxury sedans tested on that track. The S4, CTS-V, CLS, they all weight around the same as the M5 yet they ran very clean laps. There has to be an explanation why the M5 ran a suprisingly slow lap and had some real handling issues.

I would not have speculated that the rear tires were bad if the stig didnt have oversteer at EVERY corner exit. If you notice he was able to enter very fast (suprisingly fast) but when he had to get the car to exit the corner it didnt seem manageable at all......a sign of bad rear tires.

Remember these demo cars are whored out to just about every magazine and car show on the planet. People have even noted the same cars being used in 5th gear as in Top Gear. Why do you find it impossible the accept the M5 they got had spent rear tires?

If you still dont believe me, watch the 5th gear review of the M5 and listen to what a formula 1 driver has to say about the car...which you seem to think is such a boat.
 
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pardon me for asking but can anyone tell me which fifth gear episode reviews the M5?

im really interested in this car and would like to get a more expert opinion than jeremy's funny but superficial statements...

thanks
 
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