10 reasons why your next executive saloon has to be the Genesis 4.6.

Karoug

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I quite like Hyundai these days! One reason is because all the "cool kids" thinks one should badmouth them..
 

MacGuffin

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You yourself said:



I noticed that you mentioned Lexus but didn't mention Jaguar when it came to "rank". ;)
I was talking to our American friends and also I didn't want to look like a chauvinist German :p

And I didn't mention Jaguar because until today I don't take them seriously. But I don't take Maserati serious, too ;)
 
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Interrobang

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I?m all in for competition in a segment in wich Mercedes and BMW charge customers way too much for way too little. But ... the fact they won?t bring this car to europe (where they are rather sucessful with their smaller cars - wich do earn quite a lot of critics praise too) speaks volumes to me. If that were really up for competing against VWs Passat, the Citroen C8 or the skoda Superb, People WOULD buy that (a hyundai badge is not really considered worse than skoda here). But they will have their reasons for not taking on the Skoda Superb ... and like I said ... that says it all.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DfExqa6NPE[/YOUTUBE]
 

MacGuffin

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I?m all in for competition in a segment in wich Mercedes and BMW charge customers way too much for way too little. But ... the fact they won?t bring this car to europe (where they are rather sucessful with their smaller cars - wich do earn quite a lot of critics praise too) speaks volumes to me. If that were really up for competing against VWs Passat, the Citroen C8 or the skoda Superb, People WOULD buy that (a hyundai badge is not really considered worse than skoda here). But they will have their reasons for not taking on the Skoda Superb ... and like I said ... that says it all.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DfExqa6NPE[/YOUTUBE]
You're right. Hyundai knows pretty well who is willing to prefer a cheap imitation over the original and who isn't :D

As long as the Asian car makers do not learn, that to gain a reputation as car enthusiasts it simply isn't enough to sprinkle some mildly exciting model into their portfolios every 10 years or so -- just to bury it completely after a while again --, they won't win the hearts of petrolheads.

With such half-heartedness they cannot cover the fact, that the main reason for them to make cars, is to make profit. There is no actual interest in the product involved. Important is only that it makes money and beats the competition, if possible.
 
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Spectre

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Well, it's just significant that Lexus has the most success in markets, which aren't exactly known for their highly demanding customer behaviour...
We were demanding enough to reject the C-class hatchback and 3-series hatchback, which were utter crap.

We were also demanding enough to reject the X-Type which you Europeans apparently weren't.
 

MacGuffin

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We were demanding enough to reject the C-class hatchback and 3-series hatchback, which were utter crap.

We were also demanding enough to reject the X-Type which you Europeans apparently weren't.
This discussion has nothing to do with market preferences. There is also a reason why big, heavy trucks with ancient technology never caught up here.

But are you the same Spectre who rants endlessly about the stupidity of the U.S. car makers and how Americans were still willing to buy their crap despite all the faults and impertinences?

Who are you and what have you done with the real Spectre???

P.S.: I see less X-Types here, than guys in some crappy, imported U.S. cars, who think it makes them look cool.
 
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Spectre

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There's a difference between stupidity and lack of discrimination. And there's also the 'value for money' aspect to the US market, which doesn't seem to be all that prevalent in Europe - Europeans being all about the badge on the nose, apparently.
 

klankymen

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'value for money'
In my experience, so called "value for money" tends to entail NO value for money.

People look a a product that's slightly cheaper than the market leader and think "oh, this phone also has 3g, hsdpa, camera & gps" or something like that.

They compare the specs, and they think they are somehow tricking "the man" by buying a cheaper product with nominally the same features as the more expensive one. But then then manual will be in engrish, the product will break every 4 months, and even though there's a 2 year warranty, you have to waste 3 weeks every time replacing it. And the ergnomics are just plain horrible.

The whole budget mentality so prevalent in everyone's minds is just such bullshit. I'd rather pay twice as much, and get a good proper product.

There's a reason why a Rolls Royce costs 3 times as much as an A8 - it's not because it's 1s faster 0-100, it's just because all things considered, it's 3 times as good, and if you have the money for it you should get one.

I say, either buy something you're going to be happy with, or don't buy at all - but whatever you do, don't buy the cheapest option from the highest category you can afford.
 

MacGuffin

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In my experience, so called "value for money" tends to entail NO value for money.

People look a a product that's slightly cheaper than the market leader and think "oh, this phone also has 3g, hsdpa, camera & gps" or something like that.

They compare the specs, and they think they are somehow tricking "the man" by buying a cheaper product with nominally the same features as the more expensive one. But then then manual will be in engrish, the product will break every 4 months, and even though there's a 2 year warranty, you have to waste 3 weeks every time replacing it. And the ergnomics are just plain horrible.

The whole budget mentality so prevalent in everyone's minds is just such bullshit. I'd rather pay twice as much, and get a good proper product.

There's a reason why a Rolls Royce costs 3 times as much as an A8 - it's not because it's 1s faster 0-100, it's just because all things considered, it's 3 times as good, and if you have the money for it you should get one.

I say, either buy something you're going to be happy with, or don't buy at all - but whatever you do, don't buy the cheapest option from the highest category you can afford.
People have unlearned to value things. I call it the "Bl?d ist geil" mentality.

For our non-German forum members: There are two big electronic market chains competing against each other here. One is Media Markt, the other one is Saturn.

Media Markt's slogan has been for long: "Ich bin doch nicht bl?d" ("I'm not that daft")

Saturn's slogan was: "Geiz ist geil" ("Cheap is cool")

So as a reaction that kind of electronic supermarkets have become known as "Bl?d-ist-geil-M?rkte" ("Daft is cool markets").

There is also an old merchant saying: "Rabatte, Leute, lasst euch sagen, wurden vorher draufgeschlagen", meaning that when you get a rebate or if something has been lowered in price in a sale, it probably was overpriced before. The trick is as old as there are merchants on Earth but people still fall for it.

Look out for stuff that is steady in price and never appears in a sale. That's a good quality indicator, because producers, merchants and customers know it's worth the price.
 
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H0nzik

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The reason why they wouldn't even bother bringing it to Europe, IMO, is that people in Europe don't buy cars of this size simply because 'bigger is better'. They either want the badge, prestige etc. or practicality or both. This will give them neither as it's a Hyundai and a saloon. It will only give them trouble parking and driving around the city in general, worse fuel economy and yes, more legroom, which they may or may not need. This is why the previous model Skoda Superb pretty much failed and why they at least played the precticality note with the new one by giving it the twindoor boot thing and why the estate version will be coming soon.
The interior quality of the Genesis will surely impress someone driving a Chrysler, Subaru, or indeed another Hyundai model, but the drivers of pretty much anything recent from VAG or Ford of Europe will not be holding their breaths, even if their cars don't have a premium badge either.
 

Spectre

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People have unlearned to value things. I call it the "Bl?d ist geil" mentality.

For our non-German forum members: There are two big electronic market chains competing against each other here. One is Media Markt, the other one is Saturn.

Media Markt's slogan has been for long: "Ich bin doch nicht bl?d" ("I'm not that daft")

Saturn's slogan was: "Geiz ist geil" ("Cheap is cool")

So as a reaction that kind of electronic supermarkets have become known as "Bl?d-ist-geil-M?rkte" ("Daft is cool markets").

There is also an old merchant saying: "Rabatte, Leute, lasst euch sagen, wurden vorher draufgeschlagen", meaning that when you get a rebate or if something has been lowered in price in a sale, it probably was overpriced before. The trick is as old as there are merchants on Earth but people still fall for it.

Look out for stuff that is steady in price and never appears in a sale. That's a good quality indicator, because producers, merchants and customers know it's worth the price.
In that case, almost every car made in Germany and imported to the US is low quality crap because they all have huge sales and incentives.

Meanwhile, Jaguar and Rolls almost never have sales, and never on the larger models. :D
 

Spectre

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Merc offering rebates and other incentives even on the S-Class in most European countries these days?
 

MacGuffin

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Offering? No.

I guess if you ask, you will not encounter deaf ears. You're a fool if you're still paying the list price these days. Currently all makers of luxury cars are sitting on more cars, than they can sell. Even when you buy a Ferrari, you get a weekend in Maranello or a fancy luggage set something like that as a bonus.

But neither Mercedes, nor BMW or Audi will ever actively start a rebate battle here. It would damage their reputation.

German brands are still being sold via quality, technology, reputation and value stability, not so much via the price. That has always been their strength and they would be foolish to change that.

I see, however, that it might not apply for the totally ruined U.S. car market.
 
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Hatmouse

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I'm not that into executive express vehicles, but as far as that sort of vehicles go, this seems a good one.

It does look better than the E class and the 5 series, at least.
 

BlaRo

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I't a hyundai....its crap bought by people who have absolutly no idea what a car is, how it works and how to drive it properly....why are we even having this discussion? nobody with 1 gram of petrolheadness in his body is ever gonna buy a hyundai, no matter how good (they claim) their latest box of plastic and drywallscrews is, it will never have something every car worth talking about must have : soul.
That's why I think the Genesis would be a good fit for my dad: he's very budget-conscious but enjoys gadgets and toys (even if I do have to show him how to use them all), he's a middle-aged college professor who doesn't need to impress people with a gee-whiz BMW, but drives 100 miles to CT every week for lectures so he needs something relatively smooth and comfortable. And he doesn't exactly have an SCCA membership.

Newsflash: not everybody is a car enthusiast. If nobody is willing to give Hyundai the chance when it deserves it, will it ever be taken seriously as a carmaker?

Lastly, "soul?" Does anybody who isn't an Alfa snob even give a damn about "soul?" Remember, we're talking about people who don't care about cars but like value for money, like (gasp!) most people who buy executive sedans. Don't give me that flimsy argument bullshit. Besides, new cars have no soul.

And there's also the 'value for money' aspect to the US market, which doesn't seem to be all that prevalent in Europe - Europeans being all about the badge on the nose, apparently.


FACT
 
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Austere

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Newsflash: not everybody is a car enthusiast. If nobody is willing to give Hyundai the chance when it deserves it, will it ever be taken seriously as a carmaker?
Well, that's kind of a loaded question because they never will deserve a chance because of their illustrious history of making shit.

Imagine if Hitler, instead of committing suicide in the fuhrerbunker, moved to New Jersey and started making ice cream. Really good ice cream. Exactly.

I understand that not everybody is into cars. And I know that not everybody is a badge-snob-wanker-asshole like I am. But I don't have a problem with the people who buys these cars at all. I have a problem with the company that makes them in the first place. It's a company that never aims high. It never innovated shit. It never pushed the boundaries and walked on new ground. Its aim has always been to make a below average car that they can sell to the apathetic masses for fuck-all money and mucho profito.

I can not respect that. I can never respect that. Ever.:ninja:


Lastly, "soul?"
I carefully avoided using that word because I knew this would happen.:tease:
 
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