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2 internets?

bone

"bangle for president"
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
16,814
Location
belgium!!
Car(s)
Volvo V40 & Yamaha Banshee
one for america and one for the rest of the world?

it might happen

link
 
Carl Bildt said:
We really can't have a Europe that is applauded by China and Iran and Saudi Arabia on the future governance of the internet.
:cry:



It's true, Saudi Arabia sucks with regard to the internet. We tried to get DSL over a month ago, but here I am, still using the remote dial-up access provided by my uni. :(
 
Xeon SX said:
why do they have to be so stupid? OMG

Who is they?

Remember, my country designed it, my country built it, and my country funded it's creation. The Internet would not exist if not for us Americans. Therefore I think its our right to keep control of our inventions.

If Europe wants control of the Internet, they can start one of their own, we want all of the technology we designed back however (i.e. no backbone switches, ethernet, fiber optics, etc...).
 
I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.. if it was up to the US, the rest of the world could just as well cease to exist.

And @ Hokie, I hope you're joking... :|
 
ske said:
I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.. if it was up to the US, the rest of the world could just as well cease to exist.

And @ Hokie, I hope you're joking... :|
 
ske said:
And @ Hokie, I hope you're joking... :|

Nope, I am serious. I don't see why the rest of the world thinks they need control of an American invention. If you want to control the Internet, build your own, we will just take back all of the technology we created to make it work.

I'm tired of European governments thinking its their right to control everything, and that things like the UN are designed so they can push their agendas. I'm tired of them thinking that everything belongs to the everyone. That's not the case, the Internet was designed by Americans for Americans.

I don't want my internet controlled by countries with oppressive regimes, and welfare states. I don't want to have to going back to paying $75 a domain name because some government (other than my own) wants a cut of domain name sales.

Call me a classless American if you want, but i'm tired of seeing everything that we do complained about and all of the whining that Europe should get control of something that they have no rightful claim to. It looks like just a bunch of whining because we have a toy that you want from this side of the water, and instead of dealing with it like adults, they continue to whine for unilateral control.
 
As I see it, the only ones who want control here are the americans... but so be it, if you want the US to be separated from the rest of the world, then I guess more power to you.. it seems like that's the path GWB has set for your nation. Actually this thread belongs in the political forum, cause that's what all this boils down to in the end: USA vs the world.
 
ske said:
As I see it, the only ones who want control here are the americans... but so be it, if you want the US to be separated from the rest of the world, then I guess more power to you.. it seems like that's the path GWB has set for your nation. Actually this thread belongs in the political forum, cause that's what all this boils down to in the end: USA vs the world.

I don't see why the root DNS servers are so important though to the EU. Europe has made a huge deal about them being owned by a private company in the US. Why must there be UN oversight or EU oversight or whatever of this private corporation?

The Europeans wouldn't be threatening to separate their internet from the US's if it weren't a control grab for the EU.

Remember ICANN is not a US Government entity, but our government was protecting the private company in this country from having to be responsible to anyone but themselves (as the US commerce department contract with them runs out at the end of next year).

So make this into a USA vs. EU thread if you want, but I'm going to make the statement this is something the EU started, by demanding that they control the root DNS servers. We won't be the ones cutting the lines between us and rest of the world, that'll be all the EU. The US isn't looking to separate the internet, that's once again the EU.
 
hokiethang said:
but I'm going to make the statement this is something the EU started, by demanding that they control the root DNS servers.

you're wrong the EU doesn't want to control the dns servers
they just don't want the WORLD WIDE WEB to be controlled by a single country or company
the UN would the be the appropriate places for this, and that's all the EU demands
 
fluke667 said:
hokiethang said:
but I'm going to make the statement this is something the EU started, by demanding that they control the root DNS servers.

you're wrong the EU doesn't want to control the dns servers
they just don't want the WORLD WIDE WEB to be controlled by a single country or company
the UN would the be the appropriate places for this, and that's all the EU demands

Actually... the root DNS servers are what this battle is over, because the DNS system is vital to the WWW. I don't see why the EU feels that the UN has to have control over everything. I don't buy that the EU doesn't want to control the web, they just want to hide their control with the UN. The US has not intervened in the matters of ICANN at all since its inception.

I don't see why the UN would be any better, because they take 50x as long to make a decision, and have no method of enforcing their edicts without the US. And when the UN makes a policy it is usually so weak and politically correct that it is impossible to enforce. This could continue down the path of why the UN is useless, but i'll leave that for another day.

The US has a track record of leaving ICANN alone, I don't see why this has to change. I don't trust the UN to look out for my best interest, it never has looked out for my best interest. Honestly, that's what i'm concerned about, I don't trust an ineffective worldwide body to look out for my best interest. I have no say in what happens at the UN, I do in the government of my country.

I'll end with one comment from the above article. "untested models of internet governance could disrupt the 250,000-plus networks, all using the same technical standards (TCP/IP), which allows over a billion people to get online for 27bn daily user sessions."

Is that what the EU is looking for from the UN? An untested model of internet management that could disrupt communications for 27000000000 people?
 
Well, if the US can interfere with other countries matters, why wouldn't other countries want to interfere with everyone's matters?

Just a thought...
 
bihus said:
Well, if the US can interfere with other countries matters, why wouldn't other countries want to interfere with everyone's matters?

Just a thought...

I'm not sure what you are asking. At no point has the US interfered with any matters dealing with ICANN. I don't see the sudden need for the UN to seize control of the Internet. Hell, the US has a better stand on censorship on the internet than the EU plan, since the US will not allow the internet to be censored at the root servers, whereas if under UN control, its likely they would cave to the pressure of countries like China, to add censorship control over the internet. I don't want that to happen, and I trust that my government will not allow censorship through the root DNS servers.
 
i agree with the part about the EU's decissions, but don't think america should be the only one in control

although they haven't done anything wrong with this power as far as i know/concern
 
matt_shaw said:
Hey hokie! Canada gives the USA a huge percent of all its energy, how about we take it away from you guys?

I don't see what that has to do with the internet? No one said we would take the internet away from the rest of the world, we just want to keep what we built under our own control. We spent the money to develop it, we should get to keep it. I have no problems with Canadians, hell I don't have problems with Europeans, i'm just trying to figure out why your governments do what they do.

Also, i'd like to see proof of this "huge percent of all energy". Oil comes from countries other than canada, coal comes from within, uranium comes from within, natural gas comes from countries other than canada.
 
you spent the money for the research...

..in america, it didn't go anywhere

you actually might get a lot more profit if you allowed countries some control if they pay for it, if that's what your main concern is, the money
 
bone said:
you spent the money for the research...

..in america, it didn't go anywhere

you actually might get a lot more profit if you allowed countries some control if they pay for it, if that's what your main concern is, the money

but giving the UN control of it wouldn't allow us to get profit. The UN would take it and try to give everyone an equal say, even the murderous dictators, in the way the internet is run. If other countries were willing to pay for it, I would have no problem sharing control, but giving it away to the UN is NOT acceptable.

And I'm not sure what the first part of the statement was, about it didn't go anywhere. It started as a Defense network in the 60s, and by the 90s people were starting to get access to these systems, in the US. I remember having access to the internet in the early 1990s through a dialup provider.

I don't really see how it would have stopped growing if we didn't have international connections. the network would have just become more US focused, which isn't good, but wouldn't have stopped it from expanding.
 
matt_shaw said:
Should people trust the internet in America's hands? Like, its not the most stable country in the world.

It's more stable than some of the other countries that want to have a hand in running it. Just imagine the internet under Saudi Arabian or Chinese control? That's what can happen if given to the UN. Like I said earlier, The EU plan does not have enough protection against censorship, the US has said it will not allow censorship through control of the root DNS servers.

I don't really care whether you trust my government or not, but I trust them a lot more than any foreign government.
 
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