2008 US Presidential Elections

British_Rover

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None of that will happen, keep on dreaming dude! :lol:
Well that wasn't the question proposed in the original post now was it? I am not a Obama supporter nor am I a Democrat. I am a registered independent and have been since I could first vote in 1998.

I don't think any president has ever gotten even a quarter of what they proposed in their campaign platform done. It is just a very, very hard thing to do when politics have gotten so divisive.

I think Obama is the most electable of the candidates still in trace. I don't think Clinton is electable because there are conservative factions who will DO ANYTHING to stop Clinton from being elected president. You can't really understand the outright hatred that some conservatives have for Clinton unless you have been active in politics for a while and really followed both sides of the idealogical spectrum.


I like McCain and always have but he had his chance in 2000 and Rove screwed him. Now if I got screwed like McCain was screwed by the Bush/Rove machine I just don't think I could have ever made up with him. I do understand that in politics sometimes you have to make nice with people that you really shouldn't so I understand why McCain made up with Bush. McCain was probably the best republican in the field because Romney was more fake then Clinton, Huckabee was too scary, Rudi was out of touch, Thompson wasn't exciting enough, and Paul was also too scary.

The problem is McCain is too old, he would be the oldest president ever elected if he wins, and so his Veep choice is very important. I have a feeling he might pick Huckabee which would be the final nail in the coffin for me. I can sort of look past his abortion stance and I can understand his position on Iraq even if I don't agree with it. In the end though as much as I like McCain I could not vote for him.

So that leaves Obama who is a little too liberal for me but we all have to make compromises.

Oh and if I write a nice, well thought out and organized 368 word post I would appreciate more then a nine word response with a :lol: at the end. Trust me it just makes you look stupid.
 

nist7

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I don't think any president has ever gotten even a quarter of what they proposed in their campaign platform done.
Isn't that a good thing? The US government is designed so that not one person/branch can do whatever they wished.....


British_Rover said:
I don't think Clinton is electable because there are conservative factions who will DO ANYTHING to stop Clinton from being elected president. You can't really understand the outright hatred that some conservatives have for Clinton unless you have been active in politics for a while and really followed both sides of the idealogical spectrum.
Hmmmm, don't the GOP establishment really hate McCain too? I'm really not sure why....but what I hear is that some GOPs are willing to vote Hillary before they vote for McCain......
 
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tigger

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Yea I felt like a rant, and there were no trolls left :p.
It was a quality rant ;). I agree with you about Vietnam too; it seems like we went into that war without the intention of winning it. We did the same thing, in my mind, with Iraq. All the technology and superior arms in the world don't mean a thing if you just don't have enough boots on the ground. That's why we're seeing benefits from the "surge" and Petraeus' redeployment strategy.

We Republicans have all the guns...what are you going to use, VERY STRONG WORDS?
Haha, I like you, you're silly. Just because Republicans sold their soul long ago to the NRA, doesn't mean Democrats don't have guns. I know 3 guys who are in Afghanistan now; all registered Democrat.

Isn't that a good thing? The US government is designed so that not one person/branch can do whatever they wished.....
That's why I'm not too worried about the outcome of this election. McCain or Obama, I don't like either of them, I don't like Congress either, but they'll all even each other out.
 

British_Rover

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Isn't that a good thing? The US government is designed so that not one person/branch can do whatever they wished.....




Hmmmm, don't the GOP establishment really hate McCain too? I'm really not sure why....but what I hear is that some GOPs are willing to vote Hillary before they vote for McCain......
Yes it is a good thing that presidents can't get most of their way most of the time. Look what happened to our country in the short time that Bush had a rubber stamp congress and enough popular support to do almost whatever he wanted.



Ahh I said conservatives which are more then just the GOP and yes you are right much of the top GOP people and the right wing talkers hate McCain. They say they hate him because he is not a real conservative but that is not entirely true. McCain is a moderate conservative but he is still a conservative. The real reason they hate McCain is because he doesn't do what the party tells him to do.
 

British_Rover

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^ Oh my God, he has a brain and thinks for himself!
Eggsaxxcctlllyyy.

Now don't think that this is just a republican trait either the democrats did this to a lesser extent with clinton when he signed the welfare reform bills in the mid 1990s. The democratic establishment didn't want that to happen but it was the right thing to do.
 

argatoga

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Ahh I said conservatives which are more then just the GOP and yes you are right much of the top GOP people and the right wing talkers hate McCain. They say they hate him because he is not a real conservative but that is not entirely true. McCain is a moderate conservative but he is still a conservative. The real reason they hate McCain is because he doesn't do what the party tells him to do.
The funny thing is that McCain is more a conservative than Bush. Hell Clinton was more conservative. I am tired of all this NeoCon crap in the Republican party, all I want is someone who will work to get rid of government waste (Social Security, MediCare, and the like) but who isn't at the same time a crazy anarchist who also wants to do away with useful programs (FDA, FCC, and the like).
 

GM_IV

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1. A national health care system but not a single payer system like Hillary proposes. The Hillary proposal is more like Canada or the UK system
Actually from what I see Hillary's plan is not single payer and not like Canada's health care system. I actually see Hillary's health care system more like my auto insurance, mandated coverage with privatized players. I actually think its a very bad system(considering I still get ripped off despite a perfect driving record over 5 years), it rewards the insurance companies by ensuring you're stuck with at least one of them whether you like it or not. Obama at least gives the regular person some flexibility to force insurance companies to still give the need to attract customers instead of taking them for granted.
 

Cobol74

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Unless the Insurance Company is a Mutual (i.e. Not for Profit) you are always going to have issues with claims and claims assessments - need to work out something like the Lloyds of London system of syndicates and a central Claims Department paid for by subscription. This could then be closely regulated by some independent agency.
 

British_Rover

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Unless the Insurance Company is a Mutual (i.e. Not for Profit) you are always going to have issues with claims and claims assessments - need to work out something like the Lloyds of London system of syndicates and a central Claims Department paid for by subscription. This could then be closely regulated by some independent agency.
Yeah my insurance company pays back all of the members a yearly dividend check that increases the more insurance you buy. There is this stair step system and at certain levels you get a larger and larger percentage of money back. They also have insanely low insurance rates. Now I am know they make money off of their financial products but I doubt they make any money off their insurance products.
 

CyberMonkey

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Asked during a town hall meeting in Lorain, Ohio, about "an attempt by conservatives and Republicans to paint you as unpatriotic," a questioner cited the fact that Obama once failed to put his hand over his heart while singing the national anthem.

The questioner also noted that the Illinois senator does not wear an American flag lapel pin, has met with former members of the radical anti-Vietnam War group, Weather Underground, and his wife was quoted recently as saying she never felt really proud of the United States until recently.


http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/24/obama.patriotism/index.html

This deserves a "lolwut", but the problem is that the questioner was dead serious. Which makes it scary.
 

argatoga

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I can't stand these "patriots". I don't consider wearing a flag pin, or saluting a flag patriotic, patriotism is defending all Americans' civil rights, defending our nation, and supporting our republican government. Too many these days seem to think the monuments and symbols are more important than what they represent (see anti-flag burning laws)

Voting for the "patriot" act was worse than burning every American flag every fabricated and sodomizing the Lincoln Monument with a flag pole and a can of WD-40. Monuments and flags can be remade, liberties have to be fought for.

And no I am not an Obama supporter, actions mean more than words to me.
 

British_Rover

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In what way? Some small town dude just asked some questions. They may not be conventional to you but perhaps it is a worry for him. Patriotism is a big deal in the United States.
Patriotism is not wearing a flag pin it is standing up and saying something is wrong and you are going to do something about it.

I can't stand these "patriots". I don't consider wearing a flag pin, or saluting a flag patriotic, patriotism is defending all Americans' civil rights, defending our nation, and supporting our republican government. Too many these days seem to think the monuments and symbols are more important than what they represent (see anti-flag burning laws)

Voting for the "patriot" act was worse than burning every American flag every fabricated and sodomizing the Lincoln Monument with a flag pole and a can of WD-40. Monuments and flags can be remade, liberties have to be fought for.

And no I am not an Obama supporter, actions mean more than words to me.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Most of what the "Patriot Act" is made up of was on the books before 9/11 so voting for it didn't really change anything all that much.
You obviously haven't read the act then if you think that. I read a good bit of it when it first came and believe me it did change quite a bit.
 

jetsetter

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Patriotism is not wearing a flag pin it is standing up and saying something is wrong and you are going to do something about it.
Perhaps but to that man it was something else.

You obviously haven't read the act then if you think that. I read a good bit of it when it first came and believe me it did change quite a bit.
FISA, ECPA, Money Laundering Control Act of 1986, BSA, etc.
 

Twerp128

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I can't stand these "patriots". I don't consider wearing a flag pin, or saluting a flag patriotic, patriotism is defending all Americans' civil rights, defending our nation, and supporting our republican government. Too many these days seem to think the monuments and symbols are more important than what they represent (see anti-flag burning laws)
I don't see what's wrong with showing a little reverence for our country. Ever partaken in a flag retirement ceremony? It's a very humbling experience. I don't see what bad can come from a little patriotism as long as you practice what you preach?
 

argatoga

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I don't see what's wrong with showing a little reverence for our country. Ever partaken in a flag retirement ceremony? It's a very humbling experience. I don't see what bad can come from a little patriotism as long as you practice what you preach?
I should have been a bit more clear, I can't stand those who put the symbols of patriotism above what they represent. Look at anti-flag burning laws, if flag burning is made illegal than damage is done to what the flag represents, (freedom of speech and to do what you wish with your property), at the expense of what the flag represents.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating our country in a flag ceremony and the like, but we must make sure we don't see the symbols as more important than the things they represent. There are many who make this mistake.
 
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