2011 Formula 1 Monaco Grand Prix

mpicco

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
5,419
Location
Portugal
Car(s)
R19
I've been checking the sporting code and, unless I'm having a big comprehension fail, there's nothing saying that for an illegal/dangerous overtaking maneuver, a drive through is the only applicable sanction.
In fact it makes quite clear that for all the incidents any penalty can be applied, and it's up to the stewards.

Sporting Regulations for 2011 said:
16) INCIDENTS

16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by
any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to
the race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ; 2011 F1 Sporting Regulations 7 of 39 8 March 2011
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

Unless in the opinion of the race director it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the
above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

16.2
a) It shall be at the discretion of the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director,
if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised.

b) If an incident is under investigation by the stewards a message informing all teams which driver or
drivers are involved will be displayed on the timing monitors.
Provided that such a message is displayed no later than five minutes after the race has finished the
driver or drivers concerned may not leave the circuit without the consent of the stewards.

16.3 The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident :

a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping.
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds
and then re-join the race.
c) A time penalty.
d) A drop of any number of grid positions at the driver?s next Event.
e) A reprimand.
f) Exclusion from the results.
g) Suspension from the driver?s next Event.

However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after
the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time
of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).
 
Last edited:

otispunkmeyer

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
4,829
Location
Loughborough UK
Car(s)
'03 Skoda Superb (farewell :(), '06 Honda Civic ES
Well, people have asked the drivers to speak their mind and not say the PR manuscript out loud, so they got what they asked for?



This.

they didnt... we got the usual sensationalist drivel of "Hamilton in massive race row after shocking monaco grand prix"

Then if you actually read the paper they do quote the whole interview and then its clear it was just a tongue in cheek joke from a slightly pissed off young man. They even wrote about how he apologized to the stewards and that all was pretty much forgiven.... so how they get a race row off the back of that, who knows. Then again people who work for the sun/mirror/mail etc are complete cretins.


I just had a good thought... Hamilton should do BTCC. That would suit him down to the ground. If your not crowbaring your self into a space on the inside of a corner that isnt there then you arent racing in BTCC.
 
Last edited:

bone

"bangle for president"
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
16,827
Location
belgium!!
Car(s)
Volvo V40 & Yamaha Banshee
I'm with Victoria because he not only made contact, he forced Maldonado to retire.

he forced no one to do anything. maldonado could easily left place for hamilton to pass. but he didn't (his full right) and he payed the price for it...

i kept out of this discussion because it will lead to nowhere. but seriously, all the guys complaining how dull F1 has become are the same that are complaining when someone tries to do something about it.

i get the feeling several would prefer to have a drivingfield filled with button-like characters (aka number 2 drivers). he was behind Alonso and didn't try to overtake once (before the red flag). if it were hamilton, he would've been trying every single corner.

and that's the only thing F1 is about, and that's what makes champions.
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,985
Location
HEL
Car(s)
79 Opel Kadett|72 Ford Country Sedan|92 Volvo 945
I've been checking the sporting code and, unless I'm having a big comprehension fail, there's nothing saying that for an illegal/dangerous overtaking maneuver, a drive through is the only applicable sanction.
In fact it makes quite clear that for all the incidents any penalty can be applied, and it's up to the stewards.
While you are right, once you started handing out drive-thrus for causing a collision trying to overtake you can't suddenly change it to a grid drop because it feels better. There has to be continuity in the ruling. In so far handing out a drive-thru was the only option going by the rules.
 

mpicco

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
5,419
Location
Portugal
Car(s)
R19
While you are right, once you started handing out drive-thrus for causing a collision trying to overtake you can't suddenly change it to a grid drop because it feels better. There has to be continuity in the ruling. In so far handing out a drive-thru was the only option going by the rules.

Yellow card, red card. That's all Im gonna say about that.
 

otispunkmeyer

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
4,829
Location
Loughborough UK
Car(s)
'03 Skoda Superb (farewell :(), '06 Honda Civic ES
he forced no one to do anything. maldonado could easily left place for hamilton to pass. but he didn't (his full right) and he payed the price for it...

i kept out of this discussion because it will lead to nowhere. but seriously, all the guys complaining how dull F1 has become are the same that are complaining when someone tries to do something about it.

i get the feeling several would prefer to have a drivingfield filled with button-like characters (aka number 2 drivers). he was behind Alonso and didn't try to overtake once (before the red flag). if it were hamilton, he would've been trying every single corner.

and that's the only thing F1 is about, and that's what makes champions.

I agree.... Hamilton needs some kind of badge for Sundays effort.

Yeah he looks a bit of a chump with the aviators and that gay beard, but fuck me if he isn?t one of the most exciting guys to watch racing. I applaud him for that. I like Button better overall because the mans just super cool all the time. But if everyone was all super cool all the time, it would be boring. Hamilton is the chalk to Buttons cheese and its working very well for us spectators.

Im not one to get easily offended though, even when it comes to racism. If someone wants to play the black card, call me a white boy, use the N word or other racist slang in my presence I ain?t going to stop them nor am I going to be bothered by it. Its their life, their decision to bring it up... I?ll just stay out of it, it?s not worth the effort and ensuing shit storm of calling someone out on it***. So with that in mind, Hamilton?s post race interview really didn?t bother me, or strike me as OTT given the day he'd just had. In fact I applaud him there as well for for once not being the PR Puppet he usually is.

In his first years, the PR spiel he spouted after every race made me sick.

Some are saying he should admit fault some time, Brundle said it can't be everyone else?s fault all of the time. Well Im sorry but it can... whether that?s the truth or not. Why would a red blooded racer come across all "oh it was my fault, oh very sorry, won?t do it again blah blah blah". Fuck that. When you have a road accident you don?t admit fault do you? No because if you do the other party have you over a barrel. You say it wasn?t your fault, it was that idiot and you let the jury decide.



***Purely a symptom of where I grew up. Racism is alive and well where I come from but both sides give as good as they get and seem to take it in their strides. I remember at college having "blacks vs whites" football games at lunch time. Sounds bad, but everyone was still mates at the end of it. No animosity.
 
Last edited:

fusen

Active Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
296
***Purely a symptom of where I grew up. Racism is alive and well where I come from but both sides give as good as they get and seem to take it in their strides. I remember at college having "blacks vs whites" football games at lunch time. Sounds bad, but everyone was still mates at the end of it. No animosity.

except what Hamilton said was a complete joke, there was no menace or anything behind the words. Watch an Ali G interview to see the sort of absurdity the comment was made as.
 

otispunkmeyer

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
4,829
Location
Loughborough UK
Car(s)
'03 Skoda Superb (farewell :(), '06 Honda Civic ES
except what Hamilton said was a complete joke, there was no menace or anything behind the words. Watch an Ali G interview to see the sort of absurdity the comment was made as.

I know that silly! I did grow up wathing Ali-G

But as always... there a people who dont get or understand such jokes/comments and they will get all riled up over such a remark. To me and you, clearly a joke. To others perhaps not. I was just covering my bases with where I stand with regards to offending comments, i.e. for me not much is offensive. He could of actually meant what he said and I still wouldnt care.
 

Cellos88GT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
4,020
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Car(s)
2 Fox Mustangs and a '00 VFR
[sarcasm]I wish I had a fan club like Hamilton to support my piss-poor character.[/sarcasm]

Seriously though, he needs to take it easy and not get ahead of himself when it is time to make a pass. I feel like several times a season he gets into an incident that involves a questionable pass.
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,985
Location
HEL
Car(s)
79 Opel Kadett|72 Ford Country Sedan|92 Volvo 945
I wish I had a fan club like Hamilton to support my piss-poor character.
With the character you're displaying here and nothing, not even a WDC to back it up, you'll need all the fans you can get.

Here's one:
fan2.jpg
 

mpicco

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
5,419
Location
Portugal
Car(s)
R19
The answer to F1 then it seems is to give points for poor attempts of overtaking! That way everyone will be trying to place their cars where they obviously don't fit, and we'll have "exciting" drivers to watch, all of you will be so happy!
 

KaJuN

Disco Inferno
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
9,743
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Car(s)
Mini Cooper S, Landy Series III, Vulcan 900 Custom
I just finished watching the race and all I can say is "wow!". If it weren't for the safety car/red flag that would have been one of the most exciting races I've ever seen. In my few years of watching F1 I've come to know Monaco as being more or less a fancy parade for F1 to show off with. This, on the other hand, was a true race. Awesome. Simply awesome!

I think it's also becoming clear that the new tires are to thank for all the action on track this season. DRS and KERS didn't really have much impact in the last two races which is fine by me because they seem like gimmicks and make the racing seem less real.

Great pass by Webber :D

I'm not so sure. Webber dove through knowing there would be a crash if Kobayashi didn't cut straight through the chicane. Kobayashi then had to brake hard to keep off the wall because he more than likely would have been penalized for cutting the chicane and gaining an advantage. Basically Webber gave Kobayashi no room to turn in and make the chicane. In my opinion that's not overtaking, it's running someone off the track.

But good on Kobayashi for doing the sensible thing and avoiding an accident to salvage some points. That's a concept that some much more experienced drivers (Hamilton, Schumacher, I'm looking at you) don't seem to grasp. Get Kobayashi a better car and he will be world champion one day. So far he has been showing a lot of talent, skill, and bravery for a relatively new driver. I love how he's not afraid to go toe-to-toe with the best drivers and he rarely cracks under the pressure. Apparently nobody told him his car isn't as good as theirs. Either that or he doesn't care. :lol:
 

Bizness

Active Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
250
Location
Great White North
Car(s)
2004 Cobra Vert - 2013 Mustang GT/CS
I enjoyed the race :D
 

Coconut Chucker

Not A Dude
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
279
Location
USA and New Zealand
Car(s)
1999 BMW 323i
But good on Kobayashi for doing the sensible thing and avoiding an accident to salvage some points. That's a concept that some much more experienced drivers (Hamilton, Schumacher, I'm looking at you) don't seem to grasp. Get Kobayashi a better car and he will be world champion one day. So far he has been showing a lot of talent, skill, and bravery for a relatively new driver. I love how he's not afraid to go toe-to-toe with the best drivers and he rarely cracks under the pressure. Apparently nobody told him his car isn't as good as theirs. Either that or he doesn't care. :lol:

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who really likes Kobayashi and sees how talented he is.
 

Cellos88GT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
4,020
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Car(s)
2 Fox Mustangs and a '00 VFR
I think it's also becoming clear that the new tires are to thank for all the action on track this season. DRS and KERS didn't really have much impact in the last two races which is fine by me because they seem like gimmicks and make the racing seem less real.

+1

when I say this, I get nailed to the cross...
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,985
Location
HEL
Car(s)
79 Opel Kadett|72 Ford Country Sedan|92 Volvo 945
Why should that matter?

Cause we all (including you, if you're honest with yourself) know that at the first Ferrari win after a DRS pass you'll defend the system/Ferrari against all accusations that they only won because of said "gimmicks".

By the way, you still have not answered WillDAQ's challenge to prove your loudly-claimed superior understanding of F1 tech and physics by explaining the blown diffusors.

EDIT: Also note how Kajun said the systems seem like gimmicks which make the racing seem less real. A careful wording and a statement about how the racing seems to him is a whole lot different from your claims that F1 is fake and it's all artificial and omg omg. Kajun's claim is not only more reasonable, on top of that it's not only about the claim itself but also about how it's presented. And you clearly are not really a master of rhetorics.
 
Last edited:

DubyaStep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
2,944
Location
Tampa, Florida but now in Casselberry for school
Car(s)
Ford Thundercougarfalconbird
+1

when I say this, I get nailed to the cross...

its your approach, its wrong. when you run around acting like a know-it-all with no backing up of the claim and ignoring peoples challenges then you get "nailed to the cross"
 
Top