2011 Formula 1 Season Thread

vikiradTG2007

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
11,084
Location
The country UKIP is scared of
Car(s)
Working on it
The point where "bending the rules" is still within them (exploiting loopholes, etc) or breaks them, i.e. is cheating, is not easily/clearly to be determined, i think.
It's impossible to determine, that's why we get these scandals about car elements which fulfill only the letter of the rules, and not the spirit of the rules. It's a constant battle between engineers and rule makers, and the limit between bending and breaking the rules is the battlefield.
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,257
Location
Germany
Car(s)
1979 Opel Kadett | 1972 Ford Country Sedan
It's impossible to determine, that's why we get these scandals about car elements which fulfill only the letter of the rules, and not the spirit of the rules. It's a constant battle between engineers and rule makers, and the limit between bending and breaking the rules is the battlefield.
D'accord. And that's where not getting caught comes in ;)

The F-Duct is a prime example of this: It is obvious that it's a circumvention of the ban on active aero that's against the rule's spirit, which is why, once it was understood how the F-Duct works, a ban was inevitable.
 
Last edited:

vikiradTG2007

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
11,084
Location
The country UKIP is scared of
Car(s)
Working on it
D'accord. And that's where not getting caught comes in ;)

The F-Duct is a prime example of this: It is obvious that it's a circumvention of the ban on active aero that's against the rule's spirit, which is why, once it was understood how the F-Duct works, a ban was inevitable.
And if the clever workaround is somewhere inside the car, it only takes a crash or a mechanical failure for the car to be pulled at the side of the track and for photographers to discover it. That's how the second brake pedal of the '97-'98 McLarens was discovered, and that's how the double diffuser floor slots were highlighted.
 
Last edited:

settler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
927
Location
Poland
Car(s)
VW Corrado VR6
The point where "bending the rules" is still within them (exploiting loopholes, etc) or breaks them, i.e. is cheating, is not easily/clearly to be determined, i think.
I was saying about terminology. "Bending" isn't "braking" so when you bend the rules you don't break them. Like with piece of metal or something. When you brake it - that's not bending any more. :)

As for ideas that are within the rules but against the spirit of them I agree. But you can't stop that. That's how world works. ;)
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,257
Location
Germany
Car(s)
1979 Opel Kadett | 1972 Ford Country Sedan
Think of the rules as an piece of a synthetic compound, which exact properties are unknown. Every team principal, ever stewart and every determined fan or journalist gets a copy of the compound's description. Then it is announced that the compound will be subjected to a load of X kilogramm and everyone has to guesstimate if it bends or breaks. The question weather a specific load bends or breaks the compound, thus, is open to interpretation :p

But you are right, my terminology was a bit messed up...
 

settler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
927
Location
Poland
Car(s)
VW Corrado VR6
Think of the rules as an piece of a synthetic compound, which exact properties are unknown. Every team principal, ever stewart and every determined fan or journalist gets a copy of the compound's description. Then it is announced that the compound will be subjected to a load of X kilogramm and everyone has to guesstimate if it bends or breaks. The question weather a specific load bends or breaks the compound, thus, is open to interpretation :p
:thumbup:
That's how it works.
 

bone

"bangle for president"
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
16,756
Location
belgium!!
Car(s)
Volvo V40 & Yamaha Banshee
It's always reffered to as an energy recovery system. The original idea in 2008/2009 was ALWAYS pushed forward as ''trying to make F1 greener''.
sportswater was also pushed forward as being healthy ;)

it's just what they tell the ignorant and to keep the hippies happy. we all know it's only used to make the cars faster...
 

vikiradTG2007

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
11,084
Location
The country UKIP is scared of
Car(s)
Working on it
Both parties in this case claim to have won, but only Group Lotus wants to lodge an appeal. The issue is, frankly, as murky as ever. :|


Although Bahar is still an ultimate tosser.
 

Pininfarina_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,743
Location
Canada
Car(s)
E46
2010 has taught me to never jump to conclusions, but I think Vettel is going to walk away with WDC this year.

Even after they ban EBDs and the lolneweyexhaustgases, the RB7 will still be super dominant from their packaging alone.
 

Red_Bull

Gives you wings?
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
8,235
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Car(s)
Holden Commodore SV6 MY14
2010 has taught me to never jump to conclusions, but I think Vettel is going to walk away with WDC this year.

Even after they ban EBDs and the lolneweyexhaustgases, the RB7 will still be super dominant from their packaging alone.
I think much of their advantage lies in their ability to get heat into the tyres. Much of Vettel's advantage in Monaco was gained at the start and restart when the tyre temps were lower than optimal.

I'm expecting a McLaren victory in Canada. It may lack the one lap pace of the RB7 but MP4/26's race pace is as good if not better.
 

GaryC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
4,001
Location
Adelaide
Car(s)
'90 Miata, '12 Octavia RS
So what exactly is the reason for the RB speed in qualifying and not in the races? Their suspensions optimised for low fuel?
 

bone

"bangle for president"
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
16,756
Location
belgium!!
Car(s)
Volvo V40 & Yamaha Banshee
not even mclaren can answer that question, and you're expecting an answer here? :lol:
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,257
Location
Germany
Car(s)
1979 Opel Kadett | 1972 Ford Country Sedan
Most speculations regard engine mapping, it has to be something that can be changed under parc ferme conditions. With a suspension optimized for low fuel they'd have the whole floor of the car touching the ground under full fuel load, so that can't be it.

Other than that - what bone said.

And if McLaren knew the answer, they would not tell anyone before the can make it work themselves.
 

Pininfarina_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,743
Location
Canada
Car(s)
E46
With a suspension optimized for low fuel they'd have the whole floor of the car touching the ground under full fuel load, so that can't be it.
I'm sure its more complicated than just lowering the car...

Also, its not only the pace of the car, but the drivers themselves. I just dont feel Ham and butt (lolbutts) are up to it.
 

narf

Sgt. Maj. Buzzkill
DONOR
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
18,362
Location
Kiel/Wherever, Germany
Car(s)
'19 BMW M240i
So what exactly is the reason for the RB speed in qualifying and not in the races? Their suspensions optimised for low fuel?
My guess is the difference between running on full-fat screw-economy engine mappings and running in race trim where you have to balance the starting weight with the average fuel consumption. On a single quali lap it is irrelevant how much fuel you consume, the weight difference is minimal. Over the course of the race it matters a lot - if you consume let's say 10% more than the others you'll be significantly (in F1 terms) heavier at the start, get outdragged to the first corner, ruin your tyres faster, etc etc etc.

The blown diffusers / charged undertrays / whatever you want to call it may contribute a lot to this. Several teams energize them without actual throttle input, I believe Red Bull is simply using a lot more fuel to do that generating more downforce, grip, and speed. That only works in quali over a single lap because of the added fuel consumption.
 
Top