2011 Formula 1 SingTel Singapore Grand Prix

lukenwolf

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Since you didn't actually respond to my point that he wasn't trying to perform a move ("stupid-arse" or not) but just falling back in line behind Massa, there's no more back and forth discussion here since you aren't discussing the incident any more, just general vitriol.
FTFY

Nobody denies that the impact itself was minor in comparison to Schumachers shunt, but that doesn't really matter, because:

a) It was still a silly mistake you'd expect from a rookie, not from someone who has a WDC in his CV. What's so silly about is that it didn't happen during a actual fight - we see people misjudging their moves several times each year - it happened while he was trying to get back in line behind him.

b) Minor impact or not, he ruined Massa's race by slashing his rear tire. That's a massive brainfade at the best of times.

c) Many other drivers would probably not have taken a drive-through for it. Problem is that Hamilton has several reprimands already. The Stewards are losing patience with him. His antics in Q3 probably didn't help either. BTW, I think Schumacher is in the same situation now. His driving in Monza was heavily criticized and he got a reprimand for piling into Perez. He's a drive-through waiting to be dished out for the slightest driving mistake, I think.

I still think that it was a silly mistake. He doesn't drive a car with that wide wing for the first time. By now he should know the dimensions of his car. That's why I think it was stupid, not merely a mistake. And it's not only us forum members, too. Sir Jackie Steward criticized him over his attitude, too and he's not someone I'd be pegging for a forum troll ;)
 
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lukenwolf

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Well, I'd be cautious about statements from Niki Lauda. He's a tad biased.
 

bone

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Sir Jackie Steward criticized him over his attitude, too and he's not someone I'd be pegging for a forum troll ;)
i don't give a rats ass what mister it's-to-dangerous says. according to him you have to try to win a grand prix at the lowest speed possible...
go watch cycling if you want that!
 

MadCow809

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according to him you have to try to win a grand prix at the lowest speed possible...
Alain Prost did exactly that. And it was no less spectacular than what other champions achieved.

Driving flat out ? Great racing
 

Dr_Grip

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Massa needs to get out of F1 already and let Di Resta have his seat, he's a waste of space.
I have to disagree, even if it comes at the price of agreeing with EJ: DiResta is championship material. At Ferrari he'd get a contract that defines that he's the number two and has to serve the cause of eyebrow man. That's not a position he belongs in.

By the way, eventhough I strongly dislike Alonso, he's not the problem here. Ferrari has always had a dedicated number one driver and his assistant, see the Schumacher years, see Kimi/Massa, Prost/Alesi, and so on... If DiResta can get the number one spot, he should go for it. But I don't see Alonso leaving anytime soon.

All champions since back in the 80's have one thing in common - they started in weaker teams and worked their way up, learning valuable lessons along their way and producing some stellar, unforgettable performances along the way. Senna's wins in a mediocre Lotus, Schumachers debut in the Jordan, Alonso qualifying an abysmal Minardi in the middle of the pack or Vettel's 2008 victory in the Torro Rosso - these are all drives that one remembers and they all learned their trade without the pressure of having to win right from the first race of their career. This is what ruined Hamiltons development IMHO.

[...]

There's nothing wrong with his natural speed and talent, but when it comes to tactical knowledge and racing with a clear head, he's completely out of his depths at the moment and instead of defending his antics, McLaren should rather help him overcome these problems or they might be wasting the talent of one of the best drivers in F1.
You've got quite a brilliant point there. And how anyone can mistake "one of the best drivers in F1" as you hating HAM is beyond me.
 

Red_Bull

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I said it before. McLaren made a mistake by plopping the guy right into one of the best cars on the grid. That didn't work too well and they should have known. It all happened before with a guy called Jacques Villeneuve, who went straight into the best car, got a WDC against weak competition and never showed anything worth mentioning after that. All champions since back in the 80's have one thing in common - they started in weaker teams and worked their way up, learning valuable lessons along their way and producing some stellar, unforgettable performances along the way. Senna's wins in a mediocre Lotus, Schumachers debut in the Jordan, Alonso qualifying an abysmal Minardi in the middle of the pack or Vettel's 2008 victory in the Torro Rosso - these are all drives that one remembers and they all learned their trade without the pressure of having to win right from the first race of their career. This is what ruined Hamiltons development IMHO.

It may sound harsh, but I think it would do Hamilton a world of good, if McLaren 'parked' him in a smaller team for a season, so he can learn to drive his car in the middle of the pack without everyone expecting him to win. There's nothing wrong with his natural speed and talent, but when it comes to tactical knowledge and racing with a clear head, he's completely out of his depths at the moment and instead of defending his antics, McLaren should rather help him overcome these problems or they might be wasting the talent of one of the best drivers in F1.
I don't think it's that. I think he's missing the close support from his father who was a major fixture in his career right up until their professional split last year. Since then he's been represented by reps from Simon Fuller's management company which is probably hindering him a bit as he doesn't seem to have someone close to him personally guiding him off the track as he did in his early F1 years. Look at the shit in the McLaren garage in Canada for example. Rihanna, various other A list celebs/posers, the Pussycat girlfriend, etc who were all guests of Hamilton mingling about in the garage. He seems more focused on the showbiz lifestyle than concentrating entirely on driving like the superstar he's shown he can be. I feel that if Anthony Hamilton were still around as his manager and immediate go to person at the track as he used to be, he'd probably be delivering a more even performance.

Management companies and F1 drivers don't have a happy history. All the majorly successful F1 drivers in the past that I can think of had their own people who were very close to them (Schumacher had Weber, Alonso had Briatore, etc) whereas guys who tended to rely on management companies like IMG and XIX probably didn't really maximise their own success because the company was more concerned with chasing the money. Why else did David Coulthard trade a competitive spot in a dominant Williams team in 1995 to join the under performing and battling McLaren team for 1996? It's not an absolute measure of course, there are exceptions but that's my feeling of the general trend over the years.
 

mpicco

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By the way, eventhough I strongly dislike Alonso, he's not the problem here. Ferrari has always had a dedicated number one driver and his assistant, see the Schumacher years, see Kimi/Massa, Prost/Alesi, and so on... If DiResta can get the number one spot, he should go for it. But I don't see Alonso leaving anytime soon.
'ta hell are you talking about... Schumacher got his championships basically cos he was way faster than Rubens, and when Kimi and Massa were together in 07-09 they raced fair and square, so much that 07 Kimi was the champion and Massa missed the opportunity in 08 by a point. Now it's back to Alonso being clearly faster and more motivated than Massa, it's not a matter of lack of support, that's complete nonsense.
 

MadCow809

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Ferrari has always preferred the number one driver to lead the team.

Kimi's working ethics wasn't exactly what Ferrari expected. The Finn was more of a "turn-up-and-deliver" type driver, while Ferrari wanted another Schumacher type developer/leader. It was one of the major deciding factor when Ferrari decided to terminate Kimi's contract an year early. Ferrari wanted Alonso's leadership, it was clear to the team that Alonso will be the undisputed #1 driver, right from the day1. Poor Massa never had a chance.
 

Dr_Grip

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'ta hell are you talking about... Schumacher got his championships basically cos he was way faster than Rubens, and when Kimi and Massa were together in 07-09 they raced fair and square, so much that 07 Kimi was the champion and Massa missed the opportunity in 08 by a point. Now it's back to Alonso being clearly faster and more motivated than Massa, it's not a matter of lack of support, that's complete nonsense.
Let's put aside Ferrari's history. Let's have a look at Ferrari's current number one driver and the prospects DiResta would face as his team mate. Alonso needs to be the number one driver in his team, if he gets in-team competition, things turn ugly. That's why he left McLaren and i can assure you that after that experience, his contract will have a clause stating that he is the number one driver and the other driver, who ever he might be, will be number two.
 

bone

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Ferrari has always preferred the number one driver to lead the team.

Kimi's working ethics wasn't exactly what Ferrari expected. The Finn was more of a "turn-up-and-deliver" type driver, while Ferrari wanted another Schumacher type developer/leader. It was one of the major deciding factor when Ferrari decided to terminate Kimi's contract an year early. Ferrari wanted Alonso's leadership, it was clear to the team that Alonso will be the undisputed #1 driver, right from the day1. Poor Massa never had a chance.
but it might save his seat there...alonso is so popular and brings so much gain to the team (on all levels), they wouldn't even want someone that can beat him
for ferrari, massa is the perfect choice: liked by everyone, no capsones what so ever, and a great teamplayer...

(atm, being a little bit faster wouldn't hurt though, he's slacking!)
 

MadCow809

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but it might save his seat there...alonso is so popular and brings so much gain to the team (on all levels), they wouldn't even want someone that can beat him
for ferrari, massa is the perfect choice: liked by everyone, no capsones what so ever, and a great teamplayer...

(atm, being a little bit faster wouldn't hurt though, he's slacking!)
Yup, kind of like another Webber or '08~'09 Kovalainen, never being a real threat to their team-mates. Ferrari has always operated the team around this "#1 and #2 driver" method, and for the past 3 years RBR seems to have adopted the same approach.

As for rumour of Di Resta driving for Ferrari, I reckon it would be a hard offer to turn down. Even if he has to be the perfect number 2 driver like what Massa is doing now.
 

mpicco

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I disagree. Ferrari is strong enough to give 2 drivers equal treatment and opportunity, unlike Red Bull who clearly brought in updated parts and had to choose which driver they had to give them to, Ferrari updates their car and use top notch resources for both drivers. Massa is where he is because of himself alone.
If you think that, in a situation where the other driver challenges Alonso and this means more points for the team, without any dirty play and crashes, Ferrari would react negatively to this? It's completely insane...

You can keep disagreeing with me if you want but you won't change my mind so, we can move on to the next subject.
 
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vikiradTG2007

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di Resta to Ferrari? On current and recent allegiances, no chance. PdiR has been a Mercedes man for quite a few years, see his career in the DTM. It's more likely that Merc will snap him up when Schuey decides to retire once again. When Massa leaves Ferrari, it will be Perez or Bianchi who replace him, Ferrari have been evaluating them rather thoroughly over the last year.
 

bone

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If you think that, in a situation where the other driver challenges Alonso and this means more points for the team, without any dirty play and crashes, Ferrari would react negatively to this? It's completely insane...
no one said that, they just won't sack massa because he can't beat alonso...
 

MacGuffin

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Well, I'd be cautious about statements from Niki Lauda. He's a tad biased.
He's blunt and outspoken but I doubt he's biased towards any driver. If any driver makes a mistake, Lauda will say so. He has no problem speaking out his strong opinions, he's no PC man.

For example in Hamilton's first year at McLaren, when his team mate Alonso decided to become a treacherous diva, Lauda did clearly take position for Hamilton.
 

Necx0

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I must admit, I know I am a biased Australian, but Webber seems like the perfect fit for Ferrari. Gets along well with Ferds, is probably almost-but-not-quite as fast as him, in the twilight of his career so maybe a two-year contract, super dependable, can develop a car.
 

Hive

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interesting helmet design for Vettel.
I like it!

 
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