2012 BMW 3 Series

LeMans GTR

LeMans GTR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
4,910
http://forums.finalgear.com/%3Ca%20href=http://imageshack.**%20target=_blank%3E[IMG]http://img405.imageshack.**/img405/2273/spyshotsbmwsnew3seriest.jpghttp://img405.imageshack.**/img405/2273/spyshotsbmwsnew3seriest.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.**/img190/2273/spyshotsbmwsnew3seriest.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.**/img854/2273/spyshotsbmwsnew3seriest.jpg

Take one car, add a variety of different body styles and a bunch of options so you can pick'n'mix. This car looks genericalicious, but I think it looks better than the last generation.
 
The wheels make it look like it is a bit of furniture rolling around on casters - probably it will be good; but for that of course.
 
I don't really care how the exterior ends up looking, because I know it'll be a subtle evolution of the present generation just by looking at the pictures above. And that's fine with me.

But the present generation has the more or less most conservative interior on the (european) market today, and it really needs a thorough update to make it stack up to Audi and what have you.
 
Can't see fuck all, will wait for better pics until I make any comments.
 
McRae said:
But the present generation has the more or less most conservative interior on the (european) market today, and it really needs a thorough update to make it stack up to Audi and what have you.
Click to expand...

I think it will - the F10 5 series has a pretty nice interior - so it should be along those design lines. though, it maybe a bit sportier for the 3 series.

Also as for the exterior, the current E92 is much more than evolution from the e46 coupe - so I hope this new 3 won't degress. I HATED the e90 sedans looks all around so any departure from that is extremely welcome.

On a side note - I was just reading about the new M5's and remembered that all the awesome engines that use to make BMW M's- Inline 6's - NA - high rev - are now replaced with Turbo engines which spread across the entire range... sure they are economical in terms of production and mileage - but its kinda lame.
 
Last edited:
I got nothing. Hope the coupe remains as good looking as it already is.

The restyled E90, while only a slight change, was a big improvement in my opinion, especially the rear. Hopefully this is an evolution of that style.
 
It doesn't really matter if its turbo charged or not. Talking to the people I know who actually do buy these cars, all they care about is that for the M-cars, it has more than 100 HP/L (even though figuratively speaking, that number is meaningless). The "enthusiasts" who care about normally aspirated M-engines account for very little of the actual buyers of these cars. My friend once told me that she bought a 335xi because her family decided that 200-something horse power wasn't enough. As long as it makes more power than the previous model, and most important, has a BMW badge in the front, it will sell.
 
justvisiting said:
On a side note - I was just reading about the new M5's and remembered that all the awesome engines that use to make BMW M's- Inline 6's - NA - high rev - are now replaced with Turbo engines which spread across the entire range... sure they are economical in terms of production and mileage - but its kinda lame.
Click to expand...
I agree. Every turbo needs time to spool up when you suddenly decide to floor it. The "elastic" power delivery you get from a turbo isn't very sporty. Sure it's good enough for ordinary cars like the 335i but I don't think it would suit an M3 very well where you wan't everything to be precise and happen immediately.
 
It might be the color hiding the shape, but the bonnet line looks suprisingly low for a modern car, which is really nice news. I like the new 5-series generally, but it has exactly the same problem as most of the modern cars: because of current pedestrian safety laws, there has to be space between the bonnet and the engine, and that makes the front look extremely bulbous. For some reason that 3-Series manages to have pretty low bonnet line. Maybe the engine is even more behind the front axel and they're using a bonnet which raises during pedestrian impact.
 
Pry said:
I agree. Every turbo needs time to spool up when you suddenly decide to floor it. The "elastic" power delivery you get from a turbo isn't very sporty. Sure it's good enough for ordinary cars like the 335i but I don't think it would suit an M3 very well where you wan't everything to be precise and happen immediately.
Click to expand...

A well designed turbocharged engine will often have a flatter torque curve than a naturally aspirated engine, with no discernible spooling time. Are you really going to suggest that cars such as the 911 Turbo, GTR, Veyron etc. don't have sporty engine characteristics?
 
Pry said:
I agree. Every turbo needs time to spool up when you suddenly decide to floor it. The "elastic" power delivery you get from a turbo isn't very sporty. Sure it's good enough for ordinary cars like the 335i but I don't think it would suit an M3 very well where you wan't everything to be precise and happen immediately.
Click to expand...

There's something to be said for a turbo's ability to make you feel like you're on the edge of a massive wave of power, accelerating out of control towards the horizon.
 
Maybe not that exciting, but boring and nice > interesting but ugly, when it comes to German saloon cars.
 
rustyknife said:
A well designed turbocharged engine will often have a flatter torque curve than a naturally aspirated engine, with no discernible spooling time. Are you really going to suggest that cars such as the 911 Turbo, GTR, Veyron etc. don't have sporty engine characteristics?
Click to expand...
Yes, they can't be as responsive as the e90 M3 engine.
The dyno pulls have a flat torque curve because they are made from the idle to redline full throttle so the turbo doesn't need to spool up again say at 3000 rpm. It's a different case when you are cruising at 3000 rpm and then decide to go full throttle. That's when every turbo needs time to spool up while a naturally aspirated engine will have the full torque immediately.
If it needs to be forced induction then the Eaton TVS supercharger sounds a better choice to me.
 
Last edited:
Pry said:
Yes, they can't be as responsive as the e90 M3 engine.
The dyno pulls have a flat torque curve because they are made from the idle to redline full throttle so the turbo doesn't need to spool up again say at 3000 rpm. It's a different case when you are cruising at 3000 rpm and then decide to go full throttle. That's when every turbo needs time to spool up while a naturally aspirated engine will have the full torque immediately.
If it needs to be forced induction then the Eaton TVS supercharger sounds a better choice to me.
Click to expand...

As I said, a well designed turbocharged engine will have no discernible spooling time. Of course an M3 will be more responsive than a turbocharged engine, but it's a matter of whether that difference in response is even noticeable. Not every turbocharged car is like a 1000hp Supra that takes 20 seconds to spool. I have doubts that the turbo lag on a high performance engine is going to be any more significant than the throttle pedal response lag you get with any engine.

If you're cruising at 3000rpm then what's a few milliseconds difference in throttle response going to matter anyway? How are you going to need that on the street? As far as I know, transmission systems such as PDK and DSG don't require lifting of the throttle as the gear changes, as one of the clutches is always engaged. This means you won't really have many points at which you'll get lag out on the track, the only place where that minute difference in responsiveness could possibly even matter.
 
I have a 335i which I believe has a pretty well designed turbocharged engine and the spool is noticeable. It's noticeably less responsive than my Viper which doesn't have the most responsive NA engine out there. I'll take some datalogs once I have the time to show us the exact spooling time for the 335i.

They used individual throttle bodies in the previous generation M cars to reduce the length of the intake manifold between the throttle valves and the cylinder head to make the throttle response faster. With a turbo you don't really have to care about this kind of little things as the response is going to be shit (in comparison) anyway.

The new transmissions are good as the boost won't drop during the shifts but with a manual it's a different story. Every time you shift the boost drops and you'll have to wait the turbo to spool up again. I prefer a manual over those dual clutch transmissions but the bog you get after the shift isn't fun.
Anyway the issue isn't just with the shifts. Like I said when I suddenly decide to go full thorttle I like to move immediately not after some time. With the Viper it's like an instant kick to your butt while the 335i has the smooth bungee rope effect.
Don't get me wrong though the 335i's N54 is a very good and responsive turbo charged engine but I just don't think it's good enough for an M car.
 
Pry said:
With the Viper it's like an instant kick to your butt while the 335i has the smooth bungee rope effect.
Click to expand...

I suppose the 335i has more lag than I expected from the reviews, but maybe the Viper's kick has a lot to do with the fact that it's got gobs of low-end torque?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top