2012 Formula 1 Gran Premio de Espa?a Santander

settler

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I'm sorry for Lewis because he was the quickest, no doubt. But the penalty was fair. After they've put not enough fuel they should say to Lewis "sorry mate,come back to the pits, we'll start 9th". Instead they decided to break the rule and hope they don't get a penalty. That's cheating. Giving 5 place drop, like some here suggested, would be very stupid - he still would be higher up the grid (6th) than while playing fair (9th).
 

Delll

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it doesn't say so anywhere!!

the rules state that the car must return to the pits under its own power after the race, they don't say anything about qualification
Article 6: Fuel system:
6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event. Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.
Note: A "practice session" is FIA-speak for either "free practice" or "qualifying practice". The race isn't covered by this rule so either they're allowed to stop on the in lap or it's covered somewhere else.

Fuel effect (cost in lap time per 10kg of fuel carried): 0.40 seconds (high)
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/05/how-hard-will-the-f1-drivers-be-able-to-push-at-barcelona/

that's 0.4s per 10kg, since hamilton was 0.578s faster than maldonado, one liter wouldn't have made the difference

mclaren breached the rules, they should get a penalty. but back of the grid is too harsh!

If 10kg is worth 0.4s per lap should he have been allowed to run 10kg underweight too? He would stll have been faster than Maldo with a normal weight car..
 
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Goondu86

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Fair punishment will be kicking his pole position down to 10th, since he did get to Q3 on merit. But since the stewards have decided to put a harsh one out there to show that FIA is not screwing around, I doubt there'll be a repeat.
 

skippious

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Nah, they are punishing Hamilton for being Hamilton. The lack of fuel in his car is just an excuse which they can use to punish him ;) They probably wanna do the same to Vettel ;)
Hope I'ts gonna be fun!
 

lukenwolf

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I don't understand why people think that the punishment is too hard? :blink: McLaren violated a rule. Punishment for rule violations has always been disqualification and DSQ from the qualifying means back of the grid. What's so difficult to understand? Grid Penalties are only handed out for things like engine or gearbox changes, which are not technically rule violations. They are also handed out as a belated penalty if an on-track incident cannot be punished by drive-through penalty before the conclusion of a race.
It's a tough punishment, but perfectly fair according to the rules. McLaren had the chance to cancel Lewis' run. They didn't and hoped to get away with cheating. They didn't.
 

bone

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I don't understand why people think that the punishment is too hard? :blink: McLaren violated a rule. Punishment for rule violations has always been disqualification and DSQ from the qualifying means back of the grid. What's so difficult to understand? Grid Penalties are only handed out for things like engine or gearbox changes, which are not technically rule violations. They are also handed out as a belated penalty if an on-track incident cannot be punished by drive-through penalty before the conclusion of a race.
It's a tough punishment, but perfectly fair according to the rules. McLaren had the chance to cancel Lewis' run. They didn't and hoped to get away with cheating. They didn't.

in 2006, Schumacher got pole in monaco, and parked his car in the middle of the track so no one would be able to beat his. he was sent to the back
you really think making a simple fuelling error is on par with obstruction your opponents to set a time?

there should be a distinction between an error and breaking the rules in an unsporty manner
 
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Mercury

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I don't understand why people think that the punishment is too hard? :blink: McLaren violated a rule. Punishment for rule violations has always been disqualification and DSQ from the qualifying means back of the grid. What's so difficult to understand? Grid Penalties are only handed out for things like engine or gearbox changes, which are not technically rule violations. They are also handed out as a belated penalty if an on-track incident cannot be punished by drive-through penalty before the conclusion of a race.
It's a tough punishment, but perfectly fair according to the rules. McLaren had the chance to cancel Lewis' run. They didn't and hoped to get away with cheating. They didn't.

I can explain why it bothers me. I'm here to watch racing, and as a racing fan I get pissed when everyone throws in the towel and doesn't even try for pole position. Then you take the one driver who actually clocked in 2 flying laps in Q3 and actually went for pole and dump him at the end of the grid for an unfortunate mistake by his pit crew. I'm here to watch racing, Lewis provided just that but was cock blocked by his pit crew and now he has to start at the back for that.

As a racing fan (and I'm very much NOT a Lewis fan) this pisses me off. Just cancel the supposed illegal lap and get it done. No need to get dragged into "setting an example" and harsh punishments because it butt hurts the racing, and that's what I'm here for.
 

bone

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^^
9kb4ab


FIA: Fucking Interfering Assholes
 
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PaperBiro

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To all those saying that it is harsh: A mistake was made and mistakes are punished. Last year when Sauber had illegal wings due to "manufacturing" error they were stripped of points. In 2009 when BMW didn't have enough ballast on the car during Singapore qualy they put their hands up and accepted their penalty, which was disqualification.

Now if a similar circumstance occurs in the future and they are not punished accordingly you all have reason to be upset.

Actually, having given it more thought, I agree with this. The stewards have always had a zero-tolerance policy towards technical infringements of any kind.

That said, I understand that technical infringements aren't normally the kind that discretion can be applied for. In this case however, the mistake only affected the final lap. I think the stewards could and should have been more flexible.

At least they're going to have to be consistent from now on though for future incidents.
 

Red_Bull

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McLaren knew he had too few fuel in the car. I don't believe that they only noticed during Lewis' outlap. They could have said "we effed up mate, cancel your lap and come back in." They didn't do that. They let Lewis run his best lap on fumes and then claimed some outlandish "technical reasons". That's no less of a rule violation than Schumachers deliberate "crash" in Monaco 2006 - hence the punishment is exactly the same.

I think the punishment was a bit harsh, but they did the same thing in Canada a couple of years ago so they cant really say the penalty was unexpected. They probably should've abandoned the run, I expect they didn't realise the consequences would be so severe. They only said 'technical reasons' to the media, they can say whatever they like to journalists and punters.

Something's not right with the team, there's been too many mistakes and whether the problem is at a management level or operational, it needs sorting out. Sam Michael needs to start earning his money's worth because so far he's come up with no apparent benefit. I dont know how much Martin Whitmarsh has to do with actual team operations, but as the boss the buck stops at his door and he needs to get the appropriate people and systems in place to ensure the team functions correctly. No use crying over spilt milk, get on with improving the team.

PaperBiro said:
That said, I understand that technical infringements aren't normally the kind that discretion can be applied for. In this case however, the mistake only affected the final lap. I think the stewards could and should have been more flexible.


Wasnt so much a technical infringement but a sporting one.


 
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lukenwolf

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in 2006, Schumacher got pole in monaco, and parked his car in the middle of the track so no one would be able to beat his. he was sent to the back
you really think making a simple fuelling error is on par with obstruction your opponents to set a time?

there should be a distinction between an error and breaking the rules in an unsporty manner

McLaren knew he had too few fuel in the car. I don't believe that they only noticed during Lewis' outlap. They could have said "we effed up mate, cancel your lap and come back in." They didn't do that. They let Lewis run his best lap on fumes and then claimed some outlandish "technical reasons". That's no less of a rule violation than Schumachers deliberate "crash" in Monaco 2006 - hence the punishment is exactly the same.
 

Dr_Grip

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I'm sorry for Lewis because he was the quickest, no doubt. But the penalty was fair. After they've put not enough fuel they should say to Lewis "sorry mate,come back to the pits, we'll start 9th". Instead they decided to break the rule and hope they don't get a penalty. That's cheating. Giving 5 place drop, like some here suggested, would be very stupid - he still would be higher up the grid (6th) than while playing fair (9th).

Spot on. And unlike others here I am a bit proud that McLaren did not try to cheat themselves out of this: They could have declared HAM's stopping on track a gearbox failiure, kept 6th and gained a new gearbox. But they did not.
 

Red_Bull

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Martin Brundle on the grid asking random people if they speak English :lmao:

'Bernie, do you speak English?'
 

bone

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my guess??

raikkonen FTW!!

i feel the tension building :D
 

narf

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Fair punishment will be kicking his pole position down to 10th, since he did get to Q3 on merit. But since the stewards have decided to put a harsh one out there to show that FIA is not screwing around, I doubt there'll be a repeat.

Dropping him to 10th would be pretty much the same as if he didn't do the lap, so he gets a free "try to get away with it" card. No try? 9th. Try and get away with it? 1st. Try and get done? 10th. That's a no-brainer, then you have to try to get away with it.

Same with tax evasion, if the punishment was "pay back the tax you owe plus 5% interest" then everyone would try to get away with it before paying up.
 

bone

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what the hell McLaren? what was that again? dont' put your wheelgun in front of the wheel!!

good thing there is no more refueling, or they put diesel in the car :rolleyes:
 

jsausley

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Dropping him to 10th would be pretty much the same as if he didn't do the lap, so he gets a free "try to get away with it" card. No try? 9th. Try and get away with it? 1st. Try and get done? 10th. That's a no-brainer, then you have to try to get away with it.

Same with tax evasion, if the punishment was "pay back the tax you owe plus 5% interest" then everyone would try to get away with it before paying up.

You had a good point until you illustrated it by comparing it to paying taxes. :grin:
 

Jens

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According to the radio Hamilton hit a tire.
What a shame that Schumi is out... He could've put up a great effort.
 
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