2012 Formula 1 Season Thread

SchumacherM

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Great for Webber!

As for Ferrari it mght not be a stupid idea to keep Massa on you know.
I don't know, he so sensitive to what car he has underneath him. Alonso will squeeze some serious performance out of shitboxes, but Massa can't deal with crap machinery. Not really. If he gives it his all this year and actually gets a couple of podiums and regular points (barring bad luck out of his control) then he has a figthing chance. If not, then the constructors championship is too important for Ferrari to endlessly throw it away because only one driver brings home the bacon.
 

mpicco

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I hope Hamilton never moves from Mclaren. Feels like when Senna finally parted from Mclaren.....didn't feel right.
Senna wasn't spoon fed a championship winning car by McLaren in his first year of F1 racing. It's not even in the same level.
 

Zesty

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I'm guessing it's just one of those things, LH has always been at McLaren its an association that people always have. Like Senna and McLaren became synonymous in the late 80's / early 90's. To have that change requires a dramatic change in association, and therefore, picturing him going somewhere else is hard to do and would feel strange.

That's how I would feel about it anyway. I've only been following F1 seriously since 2008 and sporadically since 2003. Lewis has spent his entire F1 career at McLaren and he was there when I started watching / following regularly. Seeing him no longer in Macca colours would take a fair bit of getting used to.
 

Gman333-X-ferrari

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Hamilton isn't going anywhere. He's only delaying his contract negotiations and allowing the rumors to spread so he can get a better contract and more money from McLaren. And besides I can't see any top teams wanting him right now.
 

MadCow809

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I can't see any top teams wanting him right now.
+1

Well.... RB is out of the option, Ferrari would be a dreadful choice. Therefore, only logical options left are Mercedes & Renault. Having said that, both options are bit of a guessing game, so if Hamilton is clever, he'd stay with McLaren for another year or two.
 

jsausley

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Senna wasn't spoon fed a championship winning car by McLaren in his first year of F1 racing. It's not even in the same level.
How does one get spoon fed a championship winning car? Are you saying that the other teams don't try to give their drivers winning cars?
 

Red_Bull

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Hamilton isn't going anywhere. He's only delaying his contract negotiations and allowing the rumors to spread so he can get a better contract and more money from McLaren. And besides I can't see any top teams wanting him right now.
Lotus might have a look, although their line up seems solid enough for the time being. Raikkonen ought to improve if he stays committed and Grosjean is probably the best value driver on the grid at the moment.

McLaren probably need Hamilton more than he needs them. They need a guy who they can market and attract the big paying sponsors as they can no longer rely on the financial back-up of Mercedes, a luxury they've enjoyed since 1999. They have this in Hamilton.

He might simply want a change of scenery. He's spent a long time at McLaren and maybe he might want to get in somewhere else, although that comes back to the original argument; just who has a competitive opening for him that would represent a better long term prospect than where he is now?
 

Pininfarina_

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How does one get spoon fed a championship winning car? Are you saying that the other teams don't try to give their drivers winning cars?
He's saying "kids" such as Vettel and Hamilton that are almost immediately handed a race winning car/team without working through the lower teams like Alonso, Webber, and Button, did.
 

WillDAQ

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He's saying "kids" such as Vettel and Hamilton that are almost immediately handed a race winning car/team without working through the lower teams like Alonso, Webber, and Button, did.
I think Sauber/BMW and Toro Rosso would probably have something to say about that...
 

jsausley

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He's saying "kids" such as Vettel and Hamilton that are almost immediately handed a race winning car/team without working through the lower teams like Alonso, Webber, and Button, did.
This is how sports work. Some people are good enough straight away. Others have to prove themselves. It's not just in racing. Some NFL players get drafted in the first round and make $10 million a year straight out of college whereas others have to walk on. Both can be successful and win the Super Bowl. If Vettel or Hamilton were "spoon fed" a car, there's a good reason for it... they're both damn good drivers, and they didn't need years to develop.
 

Pininfarina_

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This is how sports work. Some people are good enough straight away. Others have to prove themselves. It's not just in racing. Some NFL players get drafted in the first round and make $10 million a year straight out of college whereas others have to walk on. Both can be successful and win the Super Bowl. If Vettel or Hamilton were "spoon fed" a car, there's a good reason for it... they're both damn good drivers, and they didn't need years to develop.
I'm not saying I don't agree with that, was just explaining what mpicco meant.
 

lukenwolf

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He's saying "kids" such as Vettel and Hamilton that are almost immediately handed a race winning car/team without working through the lower teams like Alonso, Webber, and Button, did.
Are you sure that you watched the same racing series as the rest of us, Sir? Except for a few ridiculous pay drivers like Mazzacane, Lavaggi or Deletraz, nobody comes to Formula One without merit. Back in the olden days people, who were quick enough were approached by the teams and sent on their merry ways. Back in the late eighties and the nineties, teams and other operations, like Dead Bull started running young driver programs. Mercedes has one, as does McLaren, Ferrari and Dead Bull. Many of today's crop of car ridists have come through one of these programs.

Back in 1991, a certain M. Schumacher was part of the Mercedes junior program in the sports car WC. Attention, pub quiz ammo: Did you know that Schumacher came into F1 as a pay driver? Anyway, I digress. Paul di Resta, Christian Albers, Dario Franchitti, Jamie Green - all people, who took the DTM/ITC route to top level motorsports and they were all Mercedes men. Vettel, Klien and others were backed by Dead Bull. Hamilton was signed by McLaren as soon as he stopped soiling his diapers and was developed with the specific goal of getting him into F1. Yes he has been lucky to get a winning car right from the start, but that doesn't take away from his talent. McLaren wouldn't have brought him in without being convinced that he would get the job done.

Were you get the idea from that Vettel was handed a winner, I don't know. I can't remember Torro Rosso winning too many races. In fact they won exactly one - and that was down to sheer talent on behalf of Vettel and some mediocre tactics by the opposition. Except for Hamilton, who was lucky enough that his backers happened to have a superior car, the lot of them all had to prove themselves in lesser machinery. And before someone says again that Hamilton was spoon fed - you guys seem to forget that he won titles in lesser formulae, where the cars are technologically more or less equal. Nobody gets plopped into a winning car without having proven beforehand that he/she is a bloody good driver. If anything, it happened in the nineties, when the likes of Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve were plopped into the most superior car and lamed their way to a WDC. But even these two had proven to be good-ish drivers beforehand (Villeneuve was CART and Indy500 champion, Hill had served as test ridist and managed to qualify that godawful Brabham before getting the Williams seat)
 

Pininfarina_

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Are you sure that you watched the same racing series as the rest of us, Sir? Except for a few ridiculous pay drivers like Mazzacane, Lavaggi or Deletraz, nobody comes to Formula One without merit. Back in the olden days people, who were quick enough were approached by the teams and sent on their merry ways. Back in the late eighties and the nineties, teams and other operations, like Dead Bull started running young driver programs. Mercedes has one, as does McLaren, Ferrari and Dead Bull. Many of today's crop of car ridists have come through one of these programs.

Back in 1991, a certain M. Schumacher was part of the Mercedes junior program in the sports car WC. Attention, pub quiz ammo: Did you know that Schumacher came into F1 as a pay driver? Anyway, I digress. Paul di Resta, Christian Albers, Dario Franchitti, Jamie Green - all people, who took the DTM/ITC route to top level motorsports and they were all Mercedes men. Vettel, Klien and others were backed by Dead Bull. Hamilton was signed by McLaren as soon as he stopped soiling his diapers and was developed with the specific goal of getting him into F1. Yes he has been lucky to get a winning car right from the start, but that doesn't take away from his talent. McLaren wouldn't have brought him in without being convinced that he would get the job done.

Were you get the idea from that Vettel was handed a winner, I don't know. I can't remember Torro Rosso winning too many races. In fact they won exactly one - and that was down to sheer talent on behalf of Vettel and some mediocre tactics by the opposition. Except for Hamilton, who was lucky enough that his backers happened to have a superior car, the lot of them all had to prove themselves in lesser machinery. And before someone says again that Hamilton was spoon fed - you guys seem to forget that he won titles in lesser formulae, where the cars are technologically more or less equal. Nobody gets plopped into a winning car without having proven beforehand that he/she is a bloody good driver. If anything, it happened in the nineties, when the likes of Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve were plopped into the most superior car and lamed their way to a WDC. But even these two had proven to be good-ish drivers beforehand (Villeneuve was CART and Indy500 champion, Hill had served as test ridist and managed to qualify that godawful Brabham before getting the Williams seat)
I'm not saying I don't agree with that, was just explaining what mpicco meant.
Don't get your god damn panties in a bunch.
 

lukenwolf

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Way to go. :lol: quoting a long post and contributing nothing but a few swear words.
 

mpicco

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The Red Bull Vettel was handed had won no races before his arrival. It was a good project and Vettel was offered a part in it, and he played his chips well.
Hamilton however was boosted right into a multi championship winning team. As far as if he was so "damn good he didn't need to make his way through smaller teams", that's up for discussion. After all, he only won 1 championship (and barely), while his car was always a front runner.

There are such sportsmen in all sports. Some players start their careers in huge football clubs cos they are that good, example Messi, and others make their way through the lower ranks and are arguably as good, Cristiano Ronaldo.

As far as the comparisons go between Senna and Hamilton, I don't like them at all. Their careers are almost complete opposites. Senna started low, underrated, and became a legend, moved teams cos his "trademark" team (McLaren) was not producing a competitive car anymore, and he wanted to win.
Hamilton started right at the top, with all eyes on him wondering who is this wonderkid who deserved a McLaren right out of the nursery, and he delivered at first, his first 2 seasons being his best, and declining over time, now finding himself not able to give results with a car that was supposed to be the best of the field.

So if anyone asked me how similar are Hamilton and Senna, I'd say "yeah they both have sort of a yellow helmet..."
 

GraemeH

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As far as if he was so "damn good he didn't need to make his way through smaller teams", that's up for discussion.
Why on Earth would that be up for discussion? He beat the great Alonso in his first season in equal cars... What discussion is there to have?

Your blinkers are ridiculous.
 

lukenwolf

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Why on Earth would that be up for discussion? He beat the great Alonso in his first season in equal cars... What discussion is there to have?

Your blinkers are ridiculous.
Well there is a need for a discussion here. Except for a few hardcore haters, you won't find too many people, who question Hamiltons talent. Did he have the talent to justify being drafted into the best car immediately? Yes, he did and still does. Was is a smart move? No, it wasn't.

People keep saying that drivers need to work their way up to a championship winning car. That's true, but not as a sort of initiation ritual, but to collect at least some experience and find their footing in F1, before they are exposed to the expectations and the media pressure that comes with driving a front-row car. Vettel and Hamilton are two drivers, which are good for comparison. Although Vettel was brought in some races earlier than Hamiltion, their careers have been more or less similar. Both worked their way up through junior formulae backed by major forces (McLaren and Dead Bull). But their F1 debuts is when their paths split. Vettel had an outing for BMW as sub for Kubica and then was drafted into the Torro Rosso, where not too many expectations where put before him. Beat your team mate and pick up a point here or there, that was all he had to do to be considered successfull.
Hamilton was expected to win from day one. He was never given the time to pick up some experience and find his footing. He was kicked into the deep end of the pool with some sharks in it and expected to be the fastest swimmer. He did a brilliant job in his first two years, but then the constant pressure did him in. He never had a mediocre car until this season. How's the guy supposed to know how to wring its neck or even develop such a car, when he never drove one before? Vettel spent enough time in the mediocre Torro Rosso to know how to drive around a car's weaknesses and how to tell the engineers what is wrong with the car. These are all experiences that Hamilton is lacking, because he was never given the chance to learn the trade in a lesser team, away from the big expectations.
So while many people think that he was "spoonfed", I would say they didn't do him any favours at all by exposing him to the pressure of a top team right from the bat.
 
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Goondu86

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Well there is a need for a discussion here. Except for a few hardcore haters, you won't find too many people, who question Hamiltons talent. Did he have the talent to justify being drafted into the best car immediately? Yes, he did and still does. Was is a smart move? No, it wasn't.

People keep saying that drivers need to work their way up to a championship winning car. That's true, but not as a sort of initiation ritual, but to collect at least some experience and find their footing in F1, before they are exposed to the expectations and the media pressure that comes with driving a front-row car. Vettel and Hamilton are two drivers, which are good for comparison. Although Vettel was brought in some races earlier than Hamiltion, their careers have been more or less similar. Both worked their way up through junior formulae backed by major forces (McLaren and Dead Bull). But their F1 debuts is when their paths split. Vettel had an outing for BMW as sub for Kubica and then was drafted into the Torro Rosso, where not too many expectations where put before him. Beat your team mate and pick up a point here or there, that was all he had to do to be considered successfull.
Hamilton was expected to win from day one. He was never given the time to pick up some experience and find his footing. He was kicked into the deep end of the pool with some sharks in it and expected to be the fastest swimmer. He did a brilliant job in his first two years, but then the constant pressure did him in. He never had a mediocre car until this season. How's the guy supposed to know how to wring its neck or even develop such a car, when he never drove one before? Vettel spent enough time in the mediocre Torro Rosso to know how to drive around a car's weaknesses and how to tell the engineers what is wrong with the car. These are all experiences that Hamilton is lacking, because he was never given the chance to learn the trade in a lesser team, away from the big expectations.
So while many people think that he was "spoonfed", I would say they didn't do him any favours at all by exposing him to the pressure of a top team right from the bat.
The 2009 McLaren was a dog until the later half of the year. For actually finishing in the points, I have to tip my hat to Hamilton. That's the mark of a good driver. Though at the moment the superstar lifestyle might have scrubbed some of the speed away. Which brings us to Alonso, for managing to keep his personal life away from affecting his professionalism much. That is remarkable.

As for Vettel, he's doing nothing wrong except for some annoyances like the finger and that's about it.
 
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