2013 Formula 1 Gran Premio d'Italia

Hi there GMan. How I missed your mental diarrhea...

Man! Nobody stole your job, nobody stole your wife - some badly shaved dude won a car race. Why is that worth even getting worked up about?
 
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lukenwolf said:
Hi there GMan. How I missed your mental diarrhea...

Man! Nobody stole your job, nobody stole your wife - some badly shaved dude won a car race. Why is that worth even getting worked up about?
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Because you instigated it.
 
Strong drive by Vettel, Alonso and by Mark

Loved the booing at the end by the massive crowd, Vettel should expect this at nearly every race now :)
 
Well, it wasn't exactly a classic was it!

Had Kimi and Lewis not had poor Q2s we could have had a real battle up front. As it was, we had Vettel walk off with it again and Mark and Fernando have a small tussle for 2nd and 3rd. (Great move at the della roggia chicane, real respect between the 2 of them) Good to see Felipe get a decent result but I fear his job is already gone for next year with strong rumours of an announcement on wednesday to confirm either Kimi or Nico Hulkenberg alongside Fernando.

Apart from that, the McLarens running line astern for the whole race showing the car really doesn't have pace. Good showing from Daniel Ricciardo but shame JEV's engine went pop because it could have been a double points finish for Toro Rosso. Rare driver error from Paul Di Resta which, in fairness, he held his hands up and admitted straight away and another good drive from the Hulk; he really deserves a top drive and with Sauber pretty much confirming that next year they'll have Sirotkin alongside Guttierez (???) he'd better hope that if he doesn't get the Fezza seat, he at least gets the one Kimi's leaving at Lotus.

Loved Fernando taking a selfie on the podium too! :lol:
 
It's all my fault, I think. Every time I try to become a Formula 1 fan, the season ends up being a foregone conclusion and rather boring. First time I tried was during the Michael Schumacher domination. Then years later I tried again when the competition was so much more intense, but then McLaren got disqualified for that nonsense with Ferrari, which made for another boring year. And now, a couple months ago, I got back into watching F1 again and it's just Vettel walking away with it.

I'm cursed, I tell you. It would be nice if they could just give Vettel the championship and ask that he sit out the rest of the year, so we can see some real excitement on the track. :p A lot of those battles further back were great.
 
Ziggy Shadow-Dust said:
Because you instigated it.
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I didn't instigate anything. I merely posted "let the whining begin", which it duly did, because some people don't enjoy the races - they enjoy or loathe the result. What's the point in watching a race if you leave disgruntled if a certain person doesn't win? Shouldn't the forum rather be full of posts lambasting the other teams for not building a competitive car instead of ridiculing Vettel for winning or moaning about Alonso/Lewis/Kimi not winning? There are 11 teams in F1 and the only purpose of them being there is to win. RBR does, the others do too, but less often. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, so why whine about it in an internet forum? We had absolute Ferrari dominance in the early 2000s, McLaren cleaned the fridge from 1988 to 1990 and again 1998 and 1999 and between 1992 to 1997 teams were racing for second behind Williams. Dominance of a team has been normal business in F1 for most of the last 30 years, so RB didn't invent something sinister either. So if you look at it, all the whining is just ridiculous, which is why I posted my sarcastic remark.
 
lukenwolf said:
There are 11 teams in F1 and the only purpose of them being there is to win.
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And the purpose of us watching is to see some racing. Watching someone drive around the track, pretty much alone, is no more exciting than qualifying. Watching Vettel drive around in circles is not much fun as a motorsport fan. I could jump in my own car and drive around the block and have more fun than watching Vettel's recent performances.

But that's not Vettel's fault or RBR's fault. I actually applaud them for doing such an amazing job and taking the fight to such iconic names as Ferrari, McLaren, and Lotus. Still though, the racing is pretty boring and that is Vettel and RBR's fault, for doing too good of a job.
 
TC said:
And the purpose of us watching is to see some racing. Watching someone drive around the track, pretty much alone, is no more exciting than qualifying. Watching Vettel drive around in circles is not much fun as a motorsport fan. I could jump in my own car and drive around the block and have more fun than watching Vettel's recent performances.
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You clearly don't remember the years, when only two teams were able to win races as opposed to four this year and six last year. Did you notice that there were 22 cars in the race, not 2? Somehow you missed the masterful pass Alonso pulled off on Webber or Lewis' late charge or the race-long dogfight between Rosberg and H?lkenberg. Yes, that weren't passes for the lead, but does that make them worth less? What do you enjoy, when watching a race - the fighting between drivers or only the result? F1 has seen so much worse time than now. There have been races in the past where absolutely nothing happened.
 
lukenwolf said:
You clearly don't remember the years, when only two teams were able to win races as opposed to four this year and six last year. Did you notice that there were 22 cars in the race, not 2? Somehow you missed the masterful pass Alonso pulled off on Webber or Lewis' late charge or the race-long dogfight between Rosberg and H?lkenberg. Yes, that weren't passes for the lead, but does that make them worth less? What do you enjoy, when watching a race - the fighting between drivers or only the result? F1 has seen so much worse time than now. There have been races in the past where absolutely nothing happened.
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Which is why my comments were clearly referring to Vettel's racing performance, not anyone else. I already stated earlier that the racing back in the pack was pretty good. Unfortunately, the suspense factor isn't as great when the battle is to simply try and score a point. I don't really care who wins, I have no driver or team that I favor, I simply want to see some great racing. Which is why I typically always root for the underdog, in hope of seeing some epic battles. Something that might get made into a movie someday, like that new film Rush. No one is going to spend any money to make a movie about Vettel and his 2.5 second pit stops.
 
TC said:
Which is why my comments were clearly referring to Vettel's racing performance, not anyone else. I already stated earlier that the racing back in the pack was pretty good. Unfortunately, the suspense factor isn't as great when the battle is to simply try and score a point. I don't really care who wins, I have no driver or team that I favor, I simply want to see some great racing. Which is why I typically always root for the underdog, in hope of seeing some epic battles. Something that might get made into a movie someday, like that new film Rush. No one is going to spend any money to make a movie about Vettel and his 2.5 second pit stops.
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Well, it might not be as epic as the Lauda-Hunt fight, but didn't you get the 'underdog doing something special' treat in exactly this race? Nico H?lkenberg dragged the Sauber home in 5th - a place where the car should never have finished. If, as you say, you don't care who wins, the race was still quite entertaining. It wasn't the MOST entertaining, but it wasn't really boring either.
 
bone said:
i have no idea what ferrari was thinking though
vettel pits, and they pit massa
vettel got his lead doubled by the time alonso finally changed his tires??
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Speculation amongst the NBCSN studio team* was that Ferrari was either hoping for rain or they hoped that Vettel's tires, being older, would be too worn at the end to hold off Alonso.

It was nice having Mario Andretti present, both for his perspective and to translate Ferrari's Italian communications. :D

* - Wil Buxton thought Ferrari made the wrong call and should have brought Alonso in on the next lap once they saw how fast Vettel was on fresh rubber.


TC said:
It's all my fault, I think. Every time I try to become a Formula 1 fan, the season ends up being a foregone conclusion and rather boring. First time I tried was during the Michael Schumacher domination. Then years later I tried again when the competition was so much more intense, but then McLaren got disqualified for that nonsense with Ferrari, which made for another boring year. And now, a couple months ago, I got back into watching F1 again and it's just Vettel walking away with it.
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As lukenwolf noted, a single driver or single team dominating has usually been the norm, at least over the past few decades. One team has a brilliant designer, a brilliant engineer, a brilliant team principle or a brilliant driver and they dominate that season. And when they can get a combination of the four, they tend to dominate a couple of seasons. And when they get all four you tend dominate a fair portion of the decade (as McLaren did in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Williams in the early to-mid 1990s and Ferrari in the early 2000s). Now in the late 2000's / early 2010's, I believe it is Red Bull that has the best in all four categories and they are subsequently dominating.

Red Bull definitely has the best designer in Adrian Newey so the RB series has been the best chassis. And the Renault RS27 is at least one of the best engines. As a Team Principle, I don't believe Christian Horner is to the level of a Ross Brawn or Ron Dennis, but he has a solid brain trust around him and as a unit they are also at least one of the best.

And Vettel is, IMO, one of the best drivers. Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton are better racers, IMO, but if the equipment under them is not the best, they seem to struggle more than Vettel does. And it is a perfectly valid statement to note Vettel has had the benefit of driving the best chassis every year thanks to Adrian Newey, but Webber and Coultard couldn't win with the RB3 and RB4 and Vettel has always done better than Webber with the RB5-R9. So I do not believe Vettel is as successful as he is due to driving an RBR-Renault anymore than I believe Senna's success was due to driving a McLaren-Honda or Schumacher because he had the Benetton-Renault and the Ferrari. A great car and team help, to be sure, but the talent has to be there to make the most of the car and team.
 
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MadCow809 said:
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
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You may think I contradicted myself, but that was intentional and I believe it's true. You can't blame the RBR camp for doing such a good job, but their hard work has resulted in some rather boring racing. But as others have said, this is just the way F1 is apparently.
 
Had a very busy and honestly shitty weekend and couldn't even watch the race. Watched the live timing and commentary for the closing stages, and it looked close, but still. Wished Ferrari would find the answer to at least make it exciting to the last race... I'm sure there are some people here who hate Ferrari cheering for that to happen, too.
 
WillDAQ said:
Hasn't that been the Ferrari mentality since the 60's? Good engine above all else... except the one in JEV's car...
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Pretty much. It would be nice if there could be free reigns in the development of engines for F1 because the creativity allowed in aerodynamics has caused pure boredom.
 
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WillDAQ said:
Hasn't that been the Ferrari mentality since the 60's? Good engine above all else... except the one in JEV's car...
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Not really. In the Schumacher years, Ferrari was the class of the field in terms of aerodynamics. The best engines back then were the Merc in terms of drivability and the BMW in terms of raw power and reviness. The difference is that back then they could make up for their windtunnel by using Fiorano endlessly. I think no other team drove remotely as many test miles as Ferrari. They slapped the Newey cars from left to right between 2000 and 2004, but when Rory Byrne left and the testing ban was introduced they were left with a pretty useless private test track and a windtunnel that had fallen behind those of other top team in terms of sophistication. Ever since then they're playing catch up. I don't think LdM would ever have called for aero influence to be reduced between 2000 and 2004.
 
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