2013 German Grand Prix

lukenwolf said:
If Fernando, Kimi and Lewis are so much better, why has he beaten them three years in a row.
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Because of the car, which brings us back to my original point.
 
Cellos88GT said:
Because of the car, which brings us back to my original point.
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Bullshit - Lewis had the best car for most of 2012. It was just his team, who was inept. And why are all three of them not sitting in a Red Bull if it is so vastly superior? The Red Bull is a good car, but it doesn't make a world champion from a slowcoach, else they would have retained Coulthard. Alonso was leading the 2010 championship going into the last race, too. If anything, it is inexcusable that Ferrari haven't built a championship winning car since 2007. They are the team with the biggest budget (about 20M more than McLaren and Red Bull), so why don't they get the job done? Even the second best car would have been enough. Acccording to you they have a driver that is vastly superior to any of the Red Bull drivers. What about McLaren? They had the fastest car for most of last year - still didn't get the job done?
Saying that Vettel only won because of the car is the favourite excuse of his detractors, but in the end, even the best car has still to be driven to the finish line and in the last years (with the possible exception of 2011) , things have been much closer than - say - in the utter Williams dominance of 92-97 or the Ferrari dominance of the early noughts.
 
mpicco said:
Wat.
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What is so difficult to understand? Why didn't Lewis go from McLaren to Red Bull instead of Merc? If he is so vastly superior to Vettel, don't you think RB would have gladly signed him? Or why didn't Kimi make his comeback with RB instead of Lotus. He was RB sponsored in the WRC and fits the Red Bull image much better than Vettel or Webber. Why didn't they sign him? Do you really think that someone at RB said : "we have such a good car, we can keep this mediocre driver, even if these three are way better than him"? That's a ridiculous idea.
 
I don't care to go back and forth with you on this because my opinion of Vettel won't change. I think he's a good driver but his driving just doesn't impress me.
 
Cellos88GT said:
I don't care to go back and forth with you on this because my opinion of Vettel won't change. I think he's a good driver but his driving just doesn't impress me.
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We'll talk about that again, should he ever don a red overall ;)
 
lukenwolf said:
We'll talk about that again, should he ever don a red overall ;)
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My opinion won't change, I'd be glad to see him in red because of what it means for the team. I'm still part of the camp that views F1 more as a team sport rather than a driver's sport.
 
Dr_Grip said:
I hate Vettel, seriously. He's the worst thing to happen to F1 since MSC. But credit where credit is due: the boy drove a brilliant race yesterday.
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Not sure if I understand that statement. I don't like Vettel either, and I was never a huge Schumacher fan, but I can't see why Schumi was bad for the sport. He was a great driver, didn't cheat (most of the time) and had a great car to drive. If anything you should be upset with Ferrari for out-spending everyone during that era and buying Schumacher so many championships. Any driver would want to win as much as MSC did (or as much as Vettel is doing now).

I just can't wait for next year. The turbo engines should really shake things up, and IF Red Bull is still as dominant as they are this year, at least we won't have to watch The Finger winning everything (because Raikkonen will always be in front of him).
 
Dr_Grip said:
I hate Vettel, seriously. He's the worst thing to happen to F1 since MSC. But credit where credit is due: the boy drove a brilliant race yesterday.
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Hate is a word that shouldn't be used casually. Why do you think Vettel is bad for the sport. The way I see it, he is just bloody good at his job. I've met a lot of disagreeable persons in my life, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate any of them. What has Vettel done to you to earn such an amount of negative emotions?
 
lukenwolf said:
Hate is a word that shouldn't be used casually. Why do you think Vettel is bad for the sport. The way I see it, he is just bloody good at his job. I've met a lot of disagreeable persons in my life, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I hate any of them. What has Vettel done to you to earn such an amount of negative emotions?
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Tongue in cheek mate. I doubt he seriously hates him.
 
I'm not a fan of Vettel either but I have learned to to hate his winning streak and not him as a person. I think any one of the top drivers could fill Vettel's seat with no problem though, and the very mention of him being close to Michael Schumacher is laughable in terms of talent but he'll probably rack up quite a few more drivers titles(the 2013 title is already his).


I also don't see the 2014 regulations changing much at the front of the field. Don't forget that RedBull have their magical wind guru!
 
Cellos88GT said:
(Vettel) wins every race in more or less the same fashion and it's bloody boring as fuck.
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I seem to recall that when he was with Williams, Damon Hill tended to check-out and serenely motor to victory if he had the lead.

(I believe it was said that because of his prior testing role he was more comfortable just pounding out laps with nobody in front of him.)


lukenwolf said:
If you look over the years, the bad luck has been pretty evenly dispatched at Red Bull.
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Mark's KERS never seems to work, however. ;)
 
I was SO pissed off at that wheel gun guy with Webber's pit stop, and that was before he even drove away and it came off and hit the camera man. The BBC commentators were just saying how Webber could pass Vettel in the pits and then the car didn't move and my first thought was "well...that's awfully convenient for Vettel". It was an overhead camera shot, and I was kicking the right rear wheel gunner in the head in my minds eye (just one good one to the helmet).

Needless to say, after about 10 laps of Vettel cruising around at the front I looked up who won and pretty much lost interest in the race after seeing the expected result. I know there was some good racing for other positions, but its getting REALLY boring watching Vettel have the same kind of race over and over again. I already knew it was gonna happen after both Red Bull cars passed Hamilton in at the start.

I REALLY hope that the big changes for next years cars equalizes the teams next year. It was cool to see Hamilton say that he feels the Merc car has a lot of potential during the Sky interview pre-race coverage. I don't hate Vettel, but I'm rooting against him on principle. Someone should recruit Sebastian Loeb into F1 so we are guaranteed to see someone else winning every race next year.
 
lukenwolf said:
...Why didn't Lewis go from McLaren to Red Bull instead of Merc? If he is so vastly superior to Vettel, don't you think RB would have gladly signed him?
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Lewis chose Mercedes because he wanted a challenge or something like that, build up a team to championship calibre, besides by the time it was announced he was leaving McClaren Webber had already signed his contract with Red Bull to stay on for 2013.

lukenwolf said:
Or why didn't Kimi make his comeback with RB instead of Lotus. He was RB sponsored in the WRC and fits the Red Bull image much better than Vettel or Webber. Why didn't they sign him? Do you really think that someone at RB said : "we have such a good car, we can keep this mediocre driver, even if these three are way better than him"? That's a ridiculous idea.
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There is talk at the moment that Kimi could go to Red Bull in 2014, if they are in talks with them that is and they would be moronic not to besides, as with Lewis, Webber had already been signed with Red Bull by the time Kimi was looking to come back to formula 1.
As for Alonso, I think most of the drivers in F1 would jump at the chance to go with Ferrari and when he was deciding whether or not to go to Ferrari they were doing much better then Red Bull, look at McClaren in 2012 they came in 3rd in the constructors championship with 13 podium finished between their drivers and now they seem to have a hard time staying in the points.
 
lukenwolf said:
What is so difficult to understand? Why didn't Lewis go from McLaren to Red Bull instead of Merc? If he is so vastly superior to Vettel, don't you think RB would have gladly signed him? Or why didn't Kimi make his comeback with RB instead of Lotus. He was RB sponsored in the WRC and fits the Red Bull image much better than Vettel or Webber. Why didn't they sign him? Do you really think that someone at RB said : "we have such a good car, we can keep this mediocre driver, even if these three are way better than him"? That's a ridiculous idea.
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I don't understand why you say "why are all three of them not sitting in a Red Bull".
Several reasons.
1- F1 Cars only take 1 pilot, so they can't all three of them be sitting in one.
2- If you mean, why aren't all of them signed to race for RBR, well, rules say you can only have 2 cars.
3- Wut.
 
As hard as it might be to believe, I think team culture does play a role in determining what driver goes where. In virtually all of the top teams, there's a hierarchy of number 1 and 2 driver, in varying degrees. What top driver in their right mind would have considered going to Ferrari when Schumacher was a fixture? Anyone going to Red Bull would know, regardless of how successful they may have been previously, they'll be a number 2 to Vettel. He's won the last 3 world championships and looks like winning a 4th, you think he won't have his number 1 status clearly written in his contract? F1 drivers, not being lacking in the ego department, may have issues with that.
 
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jsausley said:
If Kimi goes to RBR, Vettel won't be winning anymore championships. Not for a while.
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...and we go back to my original point, again! :p
 
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