2014 BELGIAN GRAND PRIX

Bringing in new drivers, doing a bunch of publicity and bringing in more fans, and generally being an awesome team.

I get it you wanna start some bullshit again but there's no denying the impact red bull has had on the sport.

I'm not denying Red Bull's impact on the sport, I just don't understand the part I highlighted in bold. Ferrari has a driver's academy that has brought new talent to F1 (Perez, Bianchi), they do plenty of publicity, and are always bringing in new fans.

Look I know it's easy for this forum to rag and dog on Ferrari (because fuck them, right?) but remember they're the ones who've made F1 profitable in emerging markets like Asia and the Middle East.
 

More kindling to the fire...
 
I'm not denying Red Bull's impact on the sport, I just don't understand the part I highlighted in bold. Ferrari has a driver's academy that has brought new talent to F1 (Perez, Bianchi), they do plenty of publicity, and are always bringing in new fans.

Look I know it's easy for this forum to rag and dog on Ferrari (because fuck them, right?) but remember they're the ones who've made F1 profitable in emerging markets like Asia and the Middle East.

While you are probably right about that, I was merely talking about the present and the fact that Red Bull is often defamed as an "intruder" into Formula 1, while in fact they do lots and lots to support the sport. But so was Benneton and there was no flamebaiting on them then, despite them being a much more controversial company than Red Bull.

I think what really bothers traditional racing fans, is that it's possible to win races and become world champions only with money, without needing to be a carmaker or have any racing pedigree. But what they tend to forget is that Red Bull wasn't so dominant in the past years because of some unethical strategy or trickery - but simply because of a lack of competition.

Look at the traditional F1 teams now - almost all of them are currently failures. Williams has begun to recover, yes. But McLaren has clearly lost contact to the top and Ferrari is in my eyes back at where they have been in 1994, before Michael Schumacher joined them.

If somebody wants to moan the fact that an Austrian beverage billionaire bought himself into Formula 1 and is successful there, then also moan the inability of almost all traditional teams to fight back.
 
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No, the fact that pisses us fans the most is that after the chips are down, the Red Bull teams are just a marketing device for a fizzy drinks company who wants to be identified with the Xtreme sport scene, doing rad stunts and daredevils doing dangerouz thangs.
While it's a good strategy, and it seems to be working, it's not how I see F1 at all. F1 pilots are athletes better suited to the Olympics than the X-games.
 
So you blame RB for using the sport as a vehicle for selling their product?

I suppose all the other teams would never think of that :p
 
So you blame RB for using the sport as a vehicle for selling their product?

I suppose all the other teams would never think of that :p

Basically. Look at Force India for example. The guy simply could have called his team Kingfisher Racing or something (after all he named the airline after the beer).

The most iconic F1 teams were born and live for F1, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams... Their other products are secondary. Red Bull is the other way around.
 
i actually don't have the slightest problem with that
 
I dont mind it, the money is Austrian but the people at the factory at Milton Keynes are as F1 as those at Maranello, Woking or Grove.
 
i actually don't have the slightest problem with that

And somehow that doesn't surprise me one single little tiny bit.

Anyway, he asked for the explanation on how Red Bull rubs some fans a certain way. I was not trying to convince anyone to see it that way.

I dont mind it, the money is Austrian but the people at the factory at Milton Keynes are as F1 as those at Maranello, Woking or Grove.

RBR was Jaguar which was Stewart which was started in 1997. That makes the team not even of legal age to purchase a beer. It's a bit of a stretch trying to say they have as much tradition as Ferrari or McLaren, Williams or Mercedes, or even Sauber for that matter.
 
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RBR was Jaguar which was Stewart which was started in 1997. That makes the team not even of legal age to purchase a beer. It's a bit of a stretch trying to say they have as much tradition as Ferrari or McLaren, Williams or Mercedes, or even Sauber for that matter.
Every tradition has to start at some point. I don't like Red Bull (the beverage company, not the F1 team in particular) at all, but denying them entry into some sport (or your heart as a fan) just because they weren't around 50+ years ago is nonsense.
 
Lots of tradition doesn't mean you'll win races. Proof: McLaren and Ferrari for years now.
 
Ultimately Red Bull is a brand, Infiniti Red Bull Racing isn't secondary to an energy drink it's a devision of Red Bull just like the energy drink is a division of Red Bull so they're called Red Bull Racing. Christian Horner and the rest of Red Bull don't come to the track to sell a drink, they come to win races and have a huge passion for formula one.
Force India isn't owned by Kingfisher it's owned by the owner of Kingfisher or rather him some other guy and Sahara which is why they're Sahara Force India. Ferrari may have once been a racing team which sold cars but now they're just a devision of FIAT like Red Bull and Mercedes as a company may have a racing pedigree but the team itself isn't that different from Red Bull, BAR who became Honda who became Brawn GP and then Mercedes and Lotus Renault who have little of anything to do with the Lotus of old aside from it's name.
I don't know if Red Bull Racing will endure the way Williams or McLaren went on to be the teams they are but they are a proper Formula one team not an advertisement on wheels, if Red Bull really wanted that they could have just slapped a Red Bull Logo on the side of a Ferrari for a few Million and been done with it, they could have been Scuderia Red Bull Ferrari but they didn't, they bought a team and did it properly.
 
FWIW, I don't really view Red Bull as a beverage company, sure that's how they get their money however, I can't help to think of them first, as a revolutionary marketing company. They changed the landscape and ultimately that is what made them rich, the product is secondary to their identity IMO.
 
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Completely agree with that. Their involvement in X-games, Air races, and a whole bunch of other sports has pretty much put these things on the map. It's not only sports, they actually do this with music and DJs as well.
 
RBR was Jaguar which was Stewart which was started in 1997. That makes the team not even of legal age to purchase a beer. It's a bit of a stretch trying to say they have as much tradition as Ferrari or McLaren, Williams or Mercedes, or even Sauber for that matter.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the men and women employed by Red Bull* to design, build, maintain and ultimately race a RB10 are as relevent and important in F1 as those who work for Ferrari or McLaren.

*Technology, not the people responsible for the drink in any way.
 
Lots of tradition doesn't mean you'll win races. Proof: McLaren and Ferrari for years now.

When did I imply anything of the sort?

Christian Horner and the rest of Red Bull don't come to the track to sell a drink, they come to win races and have a huge passion for formula one.

They might, their bosses are a different story.

Ferrari may have once been a racing team which sold cars but now they're just a devision of FIAT like Red Bull and Mercedes as a company may have a racing pedigree but the team itself isn't that different from Red Bull

If FIAT decided to sell Ferrari, the F1 team would still be called Ferrari. Guess what would happen if Red Bull decided to sell Red Bull Racing?

I don't know if Red Bull Racing will endure the way Williams or McLaren went on to be the teams they are but they are a proper Formula one team not an advertisement on wheels, if Red Bull really wanted that they could have just slapped a Red Bull Logo on the side of a Ferrari for a few Million and been done with it, they could have been Scuderia Red Bull Ferrari but they didn't, they bought a team and did it properly.

They used to, with Sauber. They must have sold some cans from it, then decided to go more marketing on it with a full team.

Red Bull Racing is still a huge marketing campaign for the mother brand, which I bet still makes most of its money with the drinks. I mean, all of the young drivers they've produced, they seem to be wearing Red Bull cans on their heads, their helmets all have that background colors of silver and blue in that square pattern just like the cans.
 
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