2015 Formula 1 Season Thread

vikiradTG2007

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
11,084
Location
The country UKIP is scared of
Car(s)
Working on it
Has anyone apart from Hulk been confirmed for 919 #3?
Not yet, but it's only for Spa and Le Mans and Bernhard/Dumas/Jani/Hartley/Webber/Lieb have all re-signed for full season deals according to Porsche's official press releases. So any new announcements about that car's driving squad will mean only three official outings for the drivers: Spa, LM test day and LM24 itself.
 

-Niklas-

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
71
Location
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Car(s)
Ford Focus RS -10
Hulk is in that third Porsche, the two full-season cars have the same driver line-up as this year.
Yeah, I guess the rumor about Alonso was before Hulkenberg was confirmed. Also if Alonso sign for Mclaren I don't think they will let him have a go in a car which is a competitor on the sports-car market.
 

Brother Michael

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
2,039
Location
Inkoo, Finland
Car(s)
-02 BMW 530d Touring M-Sport
Yeah, I guess the rumor about Alonso was before Hulkenberg was confirmed. Also if Alonso sign for Mclaren I don't think they will let him have a go in a car which is a competitor on the sports-car market.
More importantly this rumour about Alonso driving for Porsche at Le Mans was started due to a single photo of Alonso and Webber together at the Bahrain WEC race earlier this year. Prior to that photo there was no speculation about Alonso driving for Porsche. Thus I personally don't take these "rumours" about Alonso and Le Mans all that seriously until there is some more substance to them. One photo op isn't quite doing it for me.
 

lukenwolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
1,058
Location
Nordschleifistan
Car(s)
Alfa 145 2.0 Twin Spark 16V, dedicated ring toy
Has anyone apart from Hulk been confirmed for 919 #3?
German media have been running since 18th October that the third Porsche is supposed to be a 'F1 car' with H?lkenberg, Alonso and Button

BTW. Alonso started following the Le Mans twitter account a week ago
 
Last edited:

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
DONOR
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,040
Location
Germany
Car(s)
1979 Opel Kadett | 1972 Ford Country Sedan
OMG! He followed a twitter account! That has to mean something!
 

-Niklas-

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
71
Location
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Car(s)
Ford Focus RS -10
More importantly this rumour about Alonso driving for Porsche at Le Mans was started due to a single photo of Alonso and Webber together at the Bahrain WEC race earlier this year. Prior to that photo there was no speculation about Alonso driving for Porsche. Thus I personally don't take these "rumours" about Alonso and Le Mans all that seriously until there is some more substance to them. One photo op isn't quite doing it for me.
That's more than what I knew. I heard the rumor from one of the Swedish F1-commentators so I thought there was more to it.
I actually watched that WEC race from Bahrain and there was a lot of commotion when Alonso was in the paddock.
 

vikiradTG2007

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
11,084
Location
The country UKIP is scared of
Car(s)
Working on it
That's more than what I knew. I heard the rumor from one of the Swedish F1-commentators so I thought there was more to it.
I actually watched that WEC race from Bahrain and there was a lot of commotion when Alonso was in the paddock.
To be fair, this is Alonso's second visit to a WEC paddock this year, he waved the French tricolore at the start of the LM24 this year. Two relatively highly-publicised visits to the WEC should be a sign that the series is very much something on his radar for his future career.
 

lukenwolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
1,058
Location
Nordschleifistan
Car(s)
Alfa 145 2.0 Twin Spark 16V, dedicated ring toy
OMG! He followed a twitter account! That has to mean something!
Fernando has been a master at using the social media to express his views. So I don't think he just did it out of boredom.
 

Brother Michael

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
2,039
Location
Inkoo, Finland
Car(s)
-02 BMW 530d Touring M-Sport
For the record I do believe Alonso definitely has his eyes set on Circuit de La Sarthe at some point in his career. For all I know it COULD be next year with Porsche. All I am saying is that it's a bit too early to jump on the "Omgdz Fernando at LM2015!!!" bandwagon with the "evidence" we have. As of now it's merely media (and fans) drumming up headlines now that the racing season draws to a close.
 

lukenwolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
1,058
Location
Nordschleifistan
Car(s)
Alfa 145 2.0 Twin Spark 16V, dedicated ring toy
For the record I do believe Alonso definitely has his eyes set on Circuit de La Sarthe at some point in his career. For all I know it COULD be next year with Porsche. All I am saying is that it's a bit too early to jump on the "Omgdz Fernando at LM2015!!!" bandwagon with the "evidence" we have. As of now it's merely media (and fans) drumming up headlines now that the racing season draws to a close.
Well, what already IS confirmed is, that Porsche will field a third car in the 6h of Spa and 24h of Le Mans next year and Nico H?lkenberg will be driving it. His two team mates are not named yet, but German media have been reporting that it is to be manned etirely by F1 drivers.
 

GraemeH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
2,976
Location
Scotland, UK
Car(s)
Toyota Corolla, Lexus IS200, BMW E39 5 Series.
The 2015 F1 calendar was announced with Korea back and in the May 3rd date, with WEC's Spa on the 2nd of May, so I guess no F1 drivers for Spa at least.
 

vikiradTG2007

Forum Addict
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
11,084
Location
The country UKIP is scared of
Car(s)
Working on it
Well, what already IS confirmed is, that Porsche will field a third car in the 6h of Spa and 24h of Le Mans next year and Nico H?lkenberg will be driving it. His two team mates are not named yet, but German media have been reporting that it is to be manned etirely by F1 drivers.
German media got it wrong (partly), there's been a few confirmed days of testing with three of Porsche's GT works drivers (Nick Tandy, Fred Makowiecki and Michael Christensen), and there are far wider reports (EDIT: all over specialist sportscar media) that one (or maybe two) of them will be in that third 919 at Le Mans.

The 2015 F1 calendar was announced with Korea back and in the May 3rd date, with WEC's Spa on the 2nd of May, so I guess no F1 drivers for Spa at least.
Korea is still TBC and I can't see it happening, but yeah, it's a complication. There are two current hypotheses as to why it got shoved on the calendar like this:

1. plot by Bernie to undermine attempts by F1 drivers to drive at Le Mans by preventing them from doing a "warm-up" WEC race
2. plot by the teams' working group to bump the rules and get 5 engines for next year instead of 4; apparently there's a clause in the regulations that says that if the initial WMSC-approved F1 calendar exceeds 20 races (even if races are then cancelled), the 2015 engine allocation is increased from 4 to 5 of each power unit component.
 
Last edited:

bone

"bangle for president"
DONOR
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
16,539
Location
belgium!!
Car(s)
Volvo V40 & Yamaha Banshee
the organisers of the korean race appartenly didn't even know their race would be scheduled for next year! :lol:
 

M3lover

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
1,959
Location
The milkyway, Earth, Denmark, Copenhagen
Car(s)
S204 Mercedes-Benz C200 CDI BE T
In other news Mclaren still haven't made their minds up about the second seat next year which is pretty annoying. According to ?ric Boullier it is now only a matter of days though.

Button is the better driver and has a lot of good will from fans and people in the sport but has his age and required paycheck against him. Mclaren has invested a lot in getting Kevin to where he is now, he is young and (hopefully) has his career ahead of him. Rumors also suggest that he has some healthy sponsoring behind him. Ron Dennis met with Anders Holch Povlsen, owner of the Bestseller group (clothes and stuff) in Denmark on the 26th of november, presumably about how much they are willing to bring to the table if they keep Kevin.

I think the team and Alonso wants Jenson (for good reason) but Kevin seems to be able to bring more money to the table and is the better option thinking more than 1-2 years ahead, which might be the deciding factor giving the huge salary Alonso is commanding.
 
Last edited:

M3lover

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
1,959
Location
The milkyway, Earth, Denmark, Copenhagen
Car(s)
S204 Mercedes-Benz C200 CDI BE T
In other news Mclaren still haven't made their minds up about the second seat next year which is pretty annoying.

Button is the better driver and has a lot of good will from fans and people in the sport but has his age and required paycheck against him. Mclaren has invested a lot in getting Kevin to where he is now, he is young and (hopefully) has his career ahead of him. Rumors also suggest that he has some healthy sponsors backing him. Anders Holch Povlsen owner of the Bestseller group (close and stuff) met with Ron Dennis on the 26th of november.

I think the team wants Jenson (for good reason) but Kevin seems to be able to bring more money to the table which might be the deciding factor giving the huge salary Alonso is commanding.

It is an unfortunate situation for both drivers though. In case Button is fired he didn't get the chance to properly say his farewells at what was then his last F1 race in his 15 year career. If Kevin doesn't get a seat he is left with test driving at Mclaren since he didn't get a chance to look for another seat at Force India, Torro Rosso etc. which are now all taken.
 
Last edited:

GraemeH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
2,976
Location
Scotland, UK
Car(s)
Toyota Corolla, Lexus IS200, BMW E39 5 Series.
To be be real and not live in the 90s; they're a mid-field team who can't find a title sponsor. The ?15m difference between the drivers is a big ask for them to find, unless Honda have a hand-out for them to keep the driver who's more marketable in Japan.
The reason Hamilton's driving for Mercedes is that McLaren had to offer him a pay cut. I don't see them putting their hands ?15m deep in their pockets for Mr. Mediocre, even though he's shown he's well ahead of Magnussen at this point in their careers.
 

Brother Michael

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
2,039
Location
Inkoo, Finland
Car(s)
-02 BMW 530d Touring M-Sport
There are a few things regarding Button that a lot of people are missing here. First of all the age thing. Let's look at some of the field for next year. Jenson is 34 years of age, turning 35 in January.

Kimi R?ikk?nen - age 35
Felipe Massa - age 33
Fernando Alonso - age 33
Lewis Hamilton - age 29 (turns 30 in January)

Somebody please explain to me how is Jenson Button too old for F1 when he isn't even the oldest driver on the grid ? Fernando Alonso, the supposed savior of McLaren with a multiyear contract is a year younger than Jenson. Even the baby faced Hamilton is about to turn over a new decade. A lot of people seem to mistake Button's massive experience and longevity for old age alone. In my opinion Button's longevity in the sport speaks on his behalf, not against him.

Secondly there's the matter of finances. It's true that Jenson's salary is reportedly around ?10 million higher than Magnussen's. However there is something that Sky F1's Ted Kravitz pointed out that I found very interesting. Without Jenson's efforts espcially in the last few races, McLaren would've finished handily behind Force India in the constructors' championship. This would've translated into a loss of tens of millions in prize money. Jenson effectively earned his salary himself, making the argument about the "price gap" between the two drivers a bit more complicated.

It is quite widely reported that McLaren are still seeking for either a title sponsor or other major sponsors for next year. Supposedly it's also the reason for not confirmingtheir driver lineup yet as they want to announce everything at once. Ron Dennis has been spotted in Denmark trying to win over local businesses which makes sense since it isn't exactly a secret that Ron would prefer the danish Magnussen in the long run. My personal opinion is that it's sligthly more convoluted than that. Ron desperately wants to push his own will and retain the dictatorship like grip on the team he has always had. Having to bend to the will of the board of McLaren (who supposedly prefer Button) would be a huge blow for Dennis's ego and authority.

As far as marketing and sponsorship goes, I am baffled as to why Dennis and McLaren are not fishing for sponsor(s) in Japan ? Button is much more marketable than his young team mate and even more so in Japan. In the land of the rising sun Button is beat in popularity perhaps only by Kimi R?ikk?nen, not least because of his wife Jessica. In addition to his fame and popularity, Button is also familiar with the ways of japanese (working) culture from his BAR-Honda days, which means that he is ready to dive in straight away both from a marketing stand point and with Honda's factory in Japan.

We also know Fernando Alonso would much prefer Button as a team mate due to his experience and capability of developing a car. Alonso believes Button would play a major part in McLaren's push towards the front of the grid. Alonso gets along with Button very well but more importantly he believes the englishman poses little threat to him as a stable mate. The spaniard will not want to repeat the events of 2007 when the wet-behind-the-ears Lewis Hamilton gave him all sorts of hell on and off the track and Fernando might see signs of the same in Magnussen.
I believe that this is actually working against Button. Alonso wants to be a team leader, he wants to call the shots and be in charge of as many things as he can. Rumours say that one of Alonso's conditions to stay at Ferrari beyond 2015 would've been the right to pick his team mate. This didn't go down well with Mattiacci and it would go down even less with Ron Dennis. I don't think for a second Alonso has such a clause his McLaren contract but even the perception of him having influence on the team's driver lineup is something Ron Dennis will absolutely not allow. This takes me back to the point I made earlier: I think Ron Dennis wants to get Magnussen on board for reasons that go beyond racing and finances. It'd be a show of strength for Dennis to get his choice of driver and since he has already had to except the fact that Alonso is coming back, he is sure to fight on this matter twice as hard.

Ron Dennis and McLaren do have the valid concern of saving face with keeping Magnussen, however. He replaced Sergio Perez only after one season with the Woking team and letting another young driver go after a single season would do the team's reputation damage in the sense that they might not seem such an appealing prospect for any driver, let alone young talent. They don't want to seem like the kind of people who will have no faith in you and show you the door at the first sign of trouble. However that ship may have already sailed because their ongoing procrastination over the 2015 lineup has already put them in a bad light amongst the F1 following crowd and possibly some insiders as well. The debacle has been a complete PR-disaster for McLaren and now Ron Dennis and other board members have to choose the lesser evil of two frankly bad decisions. Keeping Magnussen will save face but will leave Button, one of the most loved faces in F1, high and dry without a proper sendoff.

In addition to off the track issues, we still have to take into account the results on the track, even though Eric Boullier has stated that the decision will not be based on race results (alone). It'd be a foolish approach not to consider what the two drivers bring to the table when the lights go out on sunday afternoon. While it is too early to tell what Kevin Magnussen is capable of, we can draw some conclusions from his Formula 3 and Formula 3.5 results as well as the past season of F1. To my eye Magnussen has the potential to be blisterignly fast but he lacks consistency. Going back through his race results he does seem to have the upper hand over his team mates but at the same time he was often found at either end of the race results, never in the middle. Button on the other hand is the model of consistency and has from 2009 onwards either matched or beaten his team mate every single season. His worst loss was in 2010 against Hamilton with 214pts vs. 240pts. Hardly a walkover.

2014 was not even a contest between Button and Magnussen, that much is clear. However writing off Magnussen completely is unfair because he was still racing with a rookie status against someone who can only be considered an elder statesman of F1. The points alone may not be the deciding factor as Boullier put it but how those points were amassed is the key question here. Button, while often lacking in pace, hardly put a foot wrong the whole season when it came to pure race craft. K-Mag on the other hand showed on occasion Maldonado and Grosjean levels of recklesness, often drawing some heated commentary from his fellow racers. This, in my opinion, is perhaps the biggest advantage to choosing Button over Magnussen for 2015. Honda desperately need clean laps, as many as possible and the 2009 world champion is the man to bring in those laps. Next year we will be seeing a lot of fresh blood on the grid with the likes of Felipe Nasr, Max Verstappen and Carlos Sainz Jr. Many have raised concerns wheter or not these young guns are ready to play with the big boys with such little wheel to wheel experience. With the grid being as unpredictable as it will be, I feel it would be wise to stick with drivers who know how to stay out of trouble. Granted Magnussen has shown the raw pace is there but it is very raw indeed. Though looking at Ricciardo and Bottas for instance, maybe it is that all important second year that the Dane needs to make his mark. The question is, are Honda willing to gamble on that.

Looking at the conundrum from all possible perspectives, the logical choice would seem to be Jenson Button to join Fernando Alonso for 2015. If it weren't for the switch to Honda powerplants, I would have to give the nod to Kevin Magnussen. Were McLaren to stick with Mercedes, I wouldn't see a reason not to have Magnussen - he has the potential, has settled into the team and can start to find his way just like so many others before him. After all drivers like Hamilton who shine so brigth during their rookie year are extremely few and far between. Would everything stay the same for next year, I could not make a case from the 2009 world champion even thoug he beat his young team mate to kingdom come this season.

But with the massive rebuilding McLaren have undertaken upon themselves, experience, consistency and proven track record are the essential building blocks for a shot at greatness. Having three drivers' world championships between Alonso and Button are by no means a guarantee to anything but the way Honda have been trumpeting their comeback, there is no room for doubts or unknowns. Unfortunately for the young dane, that is presicely what he represents. Had he given his older team mate a harder push, shown some more flare... things would be different. Even though Ron Dennis has ruled with an iron fist for decades, it's become evident that the time for strong individual leadership in F1 has come to an end. McLaren are a works team now and Dennis has Honda's management to answer to. Honda are going to want results and the only way to get those results is with constant and consistent development. Jenson Button has proven to be capable of just that and is all the things Honda are looking for.
 
Last edited:
Top