2016 USA Presidential Elections

CraigB

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I will be so glad when this shitfest is over...
It'll never be over. No matter who wins on Tuesday, the other side will whine and cry for the next four years until another equally (if not more so) awful set of candidates is released from the stinking abyss of hell selected. Then the process starts a new.
 

_HighVoltage_

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It'll never be over. No matter who wins on Tuesday, the other side will whine and cry for the next four years until another equally (if not more so) awful set of candidates is released from the stinking abyss of hell selected. Then the process starts a new.

Pretty much.

By any measurable standard, I think, the country is now in a much better state than it was in 2008. Yet, there are still those who claim Barack Obama was the worst president we ever had. Short of a miracle, nothing and no one will convince them that Obama did a good job. Even if Clinton carries over the momentum and promotes progress, in four years there will still be those committed to certain myths, who would claim that she was even worse than Obama, that everything is a disaster, and that we are all going to hell unless we repent and return to our mythical roots of a nation that was once great, but no longer is. The appeal of the jeremiad is very powerful.
 

argatoga

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To sum up The Guardian article, the FBI is allegedly conspiring to get Trump elected.

I don't see how this fits with Comey recommending Hillary not be charged a couple months ago. But then that could all be part of the conspiracy! Next jack_christie will post a link to an article suggesting chem trails are being released by the Trump team to overthrow American democracy. The FBI and the Soviet Union Russia are after us all!
 
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TC

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Pretty much.

By any measurable standard, I think, the country is now in a much better state than it was in 2008. Yet, there are still those who claim Barack Obama was the worst president we ever had. Short of a miracle, nothing and no one will convince them that Obama did a good job. Even if Clinton carries over the momentum and promotes progress, in four years there will still be those committed to certain myths, who would claim that she was even worse than Obama, that everything is a disaster, and that we are all going to hell unless we repent and return to our mythical roots of a nation that was once great, but no longer is. The appeal of the jeremiad is very powerful.

It's just one of those things. Politicians like to take credit for anything good that happened while they were in office, but none of the bad stuff. The bad stuff is always someone else's fault. Like President Obama taking credit for job creation. What exactly did he do to encourage job creation? Has he eased regulations? Lowered corporate taxes? It seems to me that those jobs were created entirely by the people (mostly the evil greedy corporations) while these politicians did nothing but stand in the way. Passing more laws and regs that only make it harder for the real job creators to create more jobs.

Yes, things are better now than in 2008, but that's not necessarily because of anything President Obama did. It's very possible things would have been even better had he done nothing at all, just played golf for 8 years. In the end I think he did a great job representing our country, as a figure head, but there are other things like the Iran deal, the dumpster fire that is the affordable care act, surrendering control of the internet, etc, that make his competency somewhat questionable. And now there is reason to believe he lied about his knowledge of Hillary's email server.
 

GRtak

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jack_christie

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To sum up The Guardian article, the FBI is allegedly conspiring to get Trump elected.

I don't see how this fits with Comey recommending Hillary not be charged a couple months ago. But then that could all be part of the conspiracy! Next jack_christie will post a link to an article suggesting chem trails are being released by the Trump team to overthrow American democracy. The FBI and the Soviet Union Russia are after us all!

So the false "Hillary Clinton FBI indictment 'likely'" never happened?

Anyway Giuliani has confirmed the FBi revolt story and dropped himself in the middle of it.

Rudy Giuliani Caught in a BIG FAT LIE, Admitted he Received CLASSIFIED Information from FBI

AP Sources: FBI Agents Sought Clinton Foundation Probe
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/03/us/politics/ap-us-campaign-2016-clinton-foundation.html

Can anyone control the FBI?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...af72c4-a2be-11e6-8832-23a007c77bb4_story.html

Obama on FBI investigation: 'We don?t operate on innuendo'
http://www.latimes.com/nation/polit...protocol-but-avoids-1478104533-htmlstory.html

How to tarnish Hillary Clinton: Accuse, investigate, come up empty, try again
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-hillary-clinton-emails-20161104-story.html

Hillary Clinton FBI indictment 'likely', claims Fox News

debunked
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-donald-trump-us-election-2016-a7395666.html
 
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JTuhka

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Claiming that the FBI as a single entity is trying to sway the vote would be moronic. What goes on inside the FBI is a different matter.

Bret Baier mentioned a split within the FBI when apologizing for using the term 'indictment'.
 

LeVeL

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Pretty much.

By any measurable standard, I think, the country is now in a much better state than it was in 2008. Yet, there are still those who claim Barack Obama was the worst president we ever had. Short of a miracle, nothing and no one will convince them that Obama did a good job. Even if Clinton carries over the momentum and promotes progress, in four years there will still be those committed to certain myths, who would claim that she was even worse than Obama, that everything is a disaster, and that we are all going to hell unless we repent and return to our mythical roots of a nation that was once great, but no longer is. The appeal of the jeremiad is very powerful.
Yes Obama did a great job... At fudging unemployment nunbers making poor deals, getting us once again stuck in the ME, souring relations with Russia, ignoring the constitution, and race-bating. Thankfully he did a poor job at stopping energy production so we actually did well on that front.
 

TC

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The problem with a lot of these stories is that they don't really change anything. It's clear there are conflicting opinions within the FBI, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It also shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they believe Hillary is likely going to be indicted because there was already sufficient information to do just that months ago. It also shouldn't be a surprise that because of the botched way the investigation was handled that the FBI's image has been tarnished with many people believing they're corrupt, which might piss off a few agents who might start talking.

Now just how true the fine details are is a different story, but none of this stuff is unexpected, which is why it's so easy to believe.
 
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argatoga

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So the false "Hillary Clinton FBI indictment 'likely'" never happened?

The Fox News misreport? How is that related? Does your conspiracy theory now include them along with Russia and the FBI?
 

rickhamilton620

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When it comes to the office of President sadly there is a misconception on how much power they have. Outside of vetoing and the Vice President having the right to call a tied Senate vote, the Executive has no legislative authority. Unofficially the President has a lot on account they tend to take over their Party's policy, but even then there is the opposition. I don't mind Stein as she would have little power as a third party candidate (the same for Johnson). For Trump and Clinton things are different, Clinton has the connections and the blessing of the Democratic Party, and thus will be able to lead. Trump, while disliked has already shown the ability to lead the Republican Party (he has moved it socially Left regarding LGBT and religious issues).

In terms of knowledge, I am more concerned with principals than knowledge. Decisions will steam from ideology. To give an example, I am liberal (natural rights, social contract, individualism) and base my decisions on its precepts. I believe universal healthcare protects natural rights for those who would not receive charity and avoids the indoctrination that religious care tends to demand. For geopolitical and regional knowledge advisors exist. The US Government hires people who have dedicated their lives to the study of individual countries and fields such as economics; their collective knowledge is beyond what any President can achieve. An executive's task is to make decisions based on their skills of judgment and values.

An issue with Trump is that his ideology, based on his 70 years prior to being a candidate, isn't firmly rooted and tends to be based on popular opinion. Clinton is further to the right of Obama, and lets her policy be based on corporate interests. Stein I disagree with on many points, but she would be powerless so I'm not too concerned (ditto for Johnson).

I like how you think of it. Makes me feel a bit better about my planned Stein vote I guess. :thumbup:
 

_HighVoltage_

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We went back, looked, and we studied. Trump must be seeing and hearing something the rest of the world physically can't.
 

Blind_Io

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Just two more days of this dumpster fire.

2 Days until the next dumpster fire is scheduled to begin.
 

TC

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I don't know, James Comey and the FBI are all Pro-Trump-Land stooges afterall, right? Or can they be trusted again? I can't keep up.
 

IceBone

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Shouldn't there be an unbiased psychological examination for the candidates to determine whether the person even has enough humanity (we've long lost any hope for sanity) in them before they're pushed as nominees?
 

NecroJoe

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Shouldn't there be an unbiased psychological examination for the candidates to determine whether the person even has enough humanity (we've long lost any hope for sanity) in them before they're pushed as nominees?

Anyone who thinks they are the one to "lead the free world" would likely fail any such test.
 

jack_christie

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A Canadian newspaper compiles a comprehensive list of Trump's election-season lies
http://boingboing.net/2016/11/05/a-canadian-newspaper-compiles.html

https://www.thestar.com/news/donald-trump-quickfacts.html

Donald Trump: The unauthorized database of false things
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...he-unauthorized-database-of-false-things.html

New record: Donald Trump said 40 false things on final Saturday

On a four-rally day, Donald Trump broke his previous record of 37 false claims.
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...p-said-40-false-things-on-final-saturday.html
 
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