2016 USA Presidential Elections

That took a week longer than I thought.

Michigan will be certifying the results at the end of the month.
 
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argatoga said:
Did he say that? I don't recall that proposal.

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From the linked article: "While it?s important to note the group has not found proof of hacking or manipulation..."

That the article goes into a Red Scare conspiracy doesn't help it.
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He wants to use Public Private Partnership (PPP) style structures to finance infrastructure. Makes no sense if money is cheap to borrow, all it does is gives his friends a cut of the action at the expense of the taxpayer. If he does this for roads it will result in tolls or 'shadow' tolls. There's a list of Nobel prize winning economists arguing against his plans.


Green flag to UnTrump the Electoral Collage?

Jill Stein prepares to request election recounts in battleground states

?A shift of just 55,000 Trump votes to Hillary in PA, MI & WI is all that is needed to win,?
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...higan-wisconsin-pennsylvania?CMP=share_btn_tw
 
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Have their been modern recounts with the results shifting 55,000 votes?
 
NecroJoe said:
Have their been modern recounts with the results shifting 55,000 votes?
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Worse than that.

Ukraine election narrowly avoided 'wanton destruction' from hackers
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http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Pass...avoided-wanton-destruction-from-hackers-video


Want to Know if the Election was Hacked? Look at the Ballots

The only way to know whether a cyberattack changed the result is to closely examine the available physical evidence???paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, nobody is ever going to examine that evidence unless candidates in those states act now, in the next several days, to petition for recounts.

no state is planning to actually check the paper in a way that would reliably detect that the computer-based outcome was wrong.
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https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-t...d-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.turp3aoji
 
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NecroJoe said:
Have their been modern recounts with the results shifting 55,000 votes?
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I highly doubt it, given the very controversial Florida recount in 2000 had waaaaay narrower margins. If a modern vote shifted 55k votes, we'd have heard about it by now.

It's also worth pointing out that the U of M professor cited in the NYmag article wrote a post on Medium clarifying his opinion, which he says was misrepresented in the NYmag article. Crucially, he says this:

Were this year?s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack? Probably not. I believe the most likely explanation is that the polls were systematically wrong, rather than that the election was hacked. But I don?t believe that either one of these seemingly unlikely explanations is overwhelmingly more likely than the other. The only way to know whether a cyberattack changed the result is to closely examine the available physical evidence???paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, nobody is ever going to examine that evidence unless candidates in those states act now, in the next several days, to petition for recounts.
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Emphasis mine.

To summarize his whole point: he doesn't believe the election was hacked to Trump's favor, but he would like a recount now and a system of mandatory recounts instituted in order to see if cyberattacks are occurring (since no state actually double-checks except for extraordinary close votes) and increase voter confidence that the system is working. This professor has previously pointed out vulnerabilities in certain electronic voting machines, and just wants the double check that there's nothing goofy going on.
 
Jill Stein created a page for donations and if she raises $2.5 million by Friday, she would call for a recount in the three states. Sounded a little sketchy, partly because, why isn't Hillary Clinton spearheading this? But I've been following the donation page - the amount donated increased by $100,000 in less than half an hour, and it's climbing consistently. Currently above $700k.
 
jack_christie said:
He wants to use Public Private Partnership (PPP) style structures to finance infrastructure. Makes no sense if money is cheap to borrow, all it does is gives his friends a cut of the action at the expense of the taxpayer. If he does this for roads it will result in tolls or 'shadow' tolls. There's a list of Nobel prize winning economists arguing against his plans.
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Assumptions aren't evidence. Your argument fails Hitchens' razor. "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
 
If there was proof of bigger manipulations everyone would want a recount. Democratic elections depend on them being fair.

But so far (as far as I have read) there is no proof and nothing apart from a bit of scepticism based on some slightly odd numbers. As it stands now, this is just denial and grasping at straws. It's quite silly ...

Better put that energy and money into efforts changing the election system in the Us as a whole so that 1 vote really equals 1 vote no matter where you live and that the president is decided by popular vote. That's a goal investing time and money into, not demanding recounts (without proof of foul play) just because you don't like the results.
 
Even though the side i pulled for lost and I've accepted the results per the processes and rules currently in place, I still can't help but feel like anyone should be questioning said process and rules after the popular vote spread has now surpassed 2,000,000 votes (1.5%).
 
NecroJoe said:
Even though the side i pulled for lost and I've accepted the results per the processes and rules currently in place, I still can't help but feel like anyone should be questioning said process and rules after the popular vote spread has now surpassed 2,000,000 votes (1.5%).
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Part of the reason the Prof above went public, is that there aren't audit checks of voting, especially the old dodgy voting machines which have to paper audit trail.

Republicans Cannot Claim a Mandate When Hillary Clinton Has a 2-Million-Vote Lead
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https://www.thenation.com/article/r...ary-clinton-has-a-two-million-vote-lead/?nc=1

Russian propaganda effort helped spread ?fake news? during election, experts say
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...3903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html
 
Apparently Donald Trump has only attended two of the daily intelligence briefings since being elected.
 
jack_christie said:
Part of the reason the Prof above went public, is that there aren't audit checks of voting, especially the old dodgy voting machines which have to paper audit trail.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...3903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html
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From the article: "There is no way to know whether the Russian campaign proved decisive in electing Trump..."
440px-Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy

Anyway, jack_christie's conspiracies aside, here is a more plausible explanation.

The Daily 202: Rust Belt Dems broke for Trump because they thought Clinton cared more about bathrooms than jobs.
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The local chairman feels very strongly now that Clinton could have won Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan if she had just kept her eye on economic issues and not gotten distracted by the culture wars.

?Look, I?m as progressive as anybody, okay? But people in the heartland thought the Democratic Party cared more about where someone else went to the restroom than whether they had a good-paying job,? he complained. ??Stronger together? doesn?t get anyone a job.?
...
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/11/22/daily-202-rust-belt-dems-broke-for-trump-because-they-thought-clinton-cared-more-about-bathrooms-than-jobs/58339cf3e9b69b7e58e45f1b/?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1

Clinton's campaign focused too much on Trump and urban cultural issues, while those in the Rust Belt feared their jobs were to be offshored. Trump took the effort to appeal to them, while she kamikazed herself with lines like "I'll put coal miners out of work" in her West Virginia campaign rally.
 
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NecroJoe said:
Apparently Donald Trump has only attended two of the daily intelligence briefings since being elected.
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The electoral college can still choose Hillary (admittedly it never happened) but is it safe to brief a "president elect" before he becomes president?
 
mpicco said:
The electoral college can still choose Hillary (admittedly it never happened) but is it safe to brief a "president elect" before he becomes president?
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Would you rather have him only have a couple weeks to get up to speed?
 
mpicco said:
The electoral college can still choose Hillary (admittedly it never happened) but is it safe to brief a "president elect" before he becomes president?
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It's been a question that's come up occasionally since the first one in 1952, which was at Truman's insistence since he wanted the incoming president to not be a clueless as he was when he became president after FDR's death. Which is understandable, since Truman was blindsided by the Manhattan Project.
 
argatoga said:
Would you rather have him only have a couple weeks to get up to speed?
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Sure, there's no hurry. His advisors will probably take most of the decisions for him, anyway. Much worse to have a president elect who hasn't even been sworn in running around with top secret info, then voted out (admittedly, again, this has never happened) of office and pissed off at the country which did just that.
 
mpicco said:
Sure, there's no hurry. His advisors will probably take most of the decisions for him, anyway. Much worse to have a president elect who hasn't even been sworn in running around with top secret info, then voted out (admittedly, again, this has never happened) of office and pissed off at the country which did just that.
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I'm not aware of any failed presidential candidate who was angry enough to undermine their own country in that way.
 
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