2016 USA Presidential Elections

GRtak

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At this point, Trump is making me vote for Clinton. There is no way I want him anywhere near the oval office. Not even on the White House tour.
 

rickhamilton620

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At this point, Trump is making me vote for Clinton. There is no way I want him anywhere near the oval office. Not even on the White House tour.

Begrudgingly I'm starting to grovel my way toward doing the same thing. It fucking sucks, this two party system (and the process to get there) is beyond broken, but he's too fucking out there to risk shit. Esp. in my state where every democratic vote counts.

Cruz? Rubio? Bush? I'd be down for voting third party....but this assclown? ugh.
 
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tigger

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You do understand the concept that some servers are more secure than others, right?
Better than most, as I said. And more secure servers than the ones Clinton utilized were hacked. Again, that was my point. Not "hurrdurr why secure anything?"

TC said:
Besides, if Comey is really so full of shit, then his recommendation that Hillary not be indicted should have also been ignored.
Comey is full of shit because he took his agents work and used it for politics. He said the investigation was done right, his folks only worked off facts, and they couldnt charge Clinton. Then he claimed that normally they'd charge someone in this situation. But this time they weren't. Because reasons. Hell he said flat out he knew his statement would cause a shitstorm.

If Hillary committed perjury, shit man, call the fucking FBI. Let them know. I'm sure your analysis will get them to reopen the case.


TC said:
That's why there was so much outrage about her not even being indicted.
So much gibberish more like. Look I'm sure the Clinton's did some shady shit somewhere, sometime. But the entire GOP has been up their ass for 25 years and they haven't found shit other than Bill getting a blowjob. 25 fucking years man! I'm sick of the conspiracy theories, of the witchhunt. Sick of hearing about it. Let me know when they get charged with something.

TC said:
And I can't join you in the regressive "everyone who doesn't agree with me is a racist" fantasy either.
You need to show me where I said that or fucking retract the comment. Because I've been arguing with people here on FG longer than I want to think about and I've never called anyone a racist here.

TC said:
But for what it's worth, it wouldn't surprise me if most of the small number of actual racists in our country are Trump supporters,
So you want to completely distort what I said, then agree with me. :? Whatever man.

TC said:
since he isn't pandering ...
:lmao: Trump doesn't pander? He doesn't make bullshit promises? He's not courting racist shitstains like David Duke?

TC said:
Now I know you're just being facetious.
Nah, I'm being an asshole.

TC said:
Again, I don't care about Trump. The man is clearly unqualified to be president. But so is Hillary. She doesn't get a free pass because her opponent is a jackass.
Man, for someone who doesn't care you're sure trying hard to defend him. Hillary, much as I dislike her, is immently more qualified. Again, disagree with her judgement or policies, at least she fucking knows how government works.


TC said:
That's according to the CNN poll ...
A pre-DNC poll from CNN cited by WaPo. God, that's like a perfect combo of suck. Look at an aggregator like 538 and they're about tied. And we still haven't seen many post DNC polls.

:roflmao: Thanks for quoting tigger so I can actually see the drivel he is spouting :roflmao: He is the Alex Jones of the regressive left - has no clue what's going on in the world and just makes shit up as he goes along :roflmao:
:lmao: Goddamnit that's adorable coming from a chickenshit who blocked me because he couldn't stand being proven wrong. Over and over and fucking over.

Tell me how ol' Ron Paul's presidential bid is going, Level?
 

GRtak

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Begrudgingly I'm starting to grovel my way toward doing the same thing. It fucking sucks, this two party system (and the process to get there) is beyond broken, but he's too fucking out there to risk shit. Esp. in my state where every democratic vote counts.

Cruz? Rubio? Bush? I'd be down for voting third party....but this assclown? ugh.


If it were any other Republican candidate, I would vote third party. Just can't let him get any closer than he is.
 

LeVeL

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So it's a bad time to vote third party when both major candidates are terrible? Aside from that making zero sense, did either of you vote third party in 2012 when the major candidates weren't as bad as they are today? Or did you come up with some other excuse? How about 2008?


Basically, look at this carefully and take a few minutes to think:

if-stalin-ran-and-hitler-ran-asademocrat-asa-republican-the-3181305.png
 

TC

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Better than most, as I said. And more secure servers than the ones Clinton utilized were hacked. Again, that was my point. Not "hurrdurr why secure anything?"
Then your point is completely irrelevant. Thanks for wasting our time with it.

If Hillary committed perjury, shit man, call the fucking FBI. Let them know. I'm sure your analysis will get them to reopen the case.

So much gibberish more like. Look I'm sure the Clinton's did some shady shit somewhere, sometime. But the entire GOP has been up their ass for 25 years and they haven't found shit other than Bill getting a blowjob. 25 fucking years man! I'm sick of the conspiracy theories, of the witchhunt. Sick of hearing about it. Let me know when they get charged with something.
Hey, if you want to ignore the ton of lying she did under oath, of which there is a ton of video evidence, then be my guest. Just don't expect anyone else to join you in stuffing wool in your ears and burying your head in the sand.

You need to show me where I said that or fucking retract the comment. Because I've been arguing with people here on FG longer than I want to think about and I've never called anyone a racist here.

So you want to completely distort what I said, then agree with me. :? Whatever man.

:lmao: Trump doesn't pander? He doesn't make bullshit promises? He's not courting racist shitstains like David Duke?
:rolleyes:

Man, for someone who doesn't care you're sure trying hard to defend him. Hillary, much as I dislike her, is immently more qualified. Again, disagree with her judgement or policies, at least she fucking knows how government works.
I'll defend anyone if I feel they're being attacked for no reason, or condemn them if they do something wrong. Like this latest story, where Trump supposedly asked about our nukes and in what situations they would ever be used. I think a lot of people ask themselves that question, since it's inconceivable that we would ever use them, and yet we have them. A lot of them. But it turns into, "Trump is going to nuke earth! Oh noes!" I don't care if people tear Trump a new one for being an idiot with a big mouth and no ability to censor himself, but all this petty stuff and the clear bias in our media is simply annoying. I feel strongly compelled to play devils advocate and go against the norm here.

A pre-DNC poll from CNN cited by WaPo. God, that's like a perfect combo of suck. Look at an aggregator like 538 and they're about tied. And we still haven't seen many post DNC polls.
Well, at least you acknowledge that Hillary is no more trustworthy than Donald Trump, of all people, according to the polls.
 

Firecat

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So it's a bad time to vote third party when both major candidates are terrible? Aside from that making zero sense, did either of you vote third party in 2012 when the major candidates weren't as bad as they are today? Or did you come up with some other excuse? How about 2008?


Basically, look at this carefully and take a few minutes to think:

if-stalin-ran-and-hitler-ran-asademocrat-asa-republican-the-3181305.png

I've been supporting third party candidates since 2000. The only time I even considered supporting a democrat was this year, with Bernie Sanders. Now that he's out I'll vote Green.

We all know the system is rigged for two parties. I was reading an article today about how both Trump and Clinton will receive intelligence briefings because they both secured their parties nominations......so what if they have? Why not give the libertarians or greens intelligence briefings too? Why just the nominees or the republicans and democrats?
 

prizrak

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On Hilary and e-mails, here is my problem. She didn't follow the specified process, when it comes to IT security ability (or inability) to compromise a system is only part of it. There are also procedures in place for detecting attacks, averting attacks, and most importantly handling a breach that has occurred. It's completely irrelevant if her system was as secure as what the SD would have provided her with, what is relevant is that she broke the process in place for handling classified information.

I work for an IT services company and we have some financial clients that have increased security, we have to use their accepted procedures for doing work on their systems. It's not that our systems are not secure, in many cases they are actually more secure, but it's because that's the process. If we do break the process we must have a very good reason for it and if we don't we get to pay fines and the party responsible may very well find themselves looking for employment. They are not going to be up for promotion, which is exactly what is happening here...
 

kurthest

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I can't even....in just a few lines you managed to make 3 idiotic statements. That has to be some sort of record.

Let Trump nuke Norway, I'm sure ISIS is there too
There's no ISIS strongholds in Norway.
 

GRtak

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So it's a bad time to vote third party when both major candidates are terrible? Aside from that making zero sense, did either of you vote third party in 2012 when the major candidates weren't as bad as they are today? Or did you come up with some other excuse? How about 2008?


Basically, look at this carefully and take a few minutes to think:

https://pics.onsizzle.com/if-stalin-ran-and-hitler-ran-asademocrat-asa-republican-the-3181305.png[/QUOTE]


I tend to vote third party about 2/3 of the time. One of the few exceptions were for Obama in 2008. I just would not let Palin get into the VP slot.
 

_HighVoltage_

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Well, this is rather interesting. As it turns out, Melania Trump may have come to the U.S. illegally. So much for coming here the "right way."

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/melania-trump-immigration-donald-226648

Gaps in Melania Trump's immigration story raise questions

Nude photographs published this week are raising fresh questions about the accuracy of a key aspect of Melania Trump?s biography: her immigration status when she first came to the United States to work as a model.

The racy photos of the would-be first lady, published in the New York Post on Sunday and Monday, inadvertently highlight inconsistencies in the various accounts she has provided over the years. And, immigration experts say, there?s even a slim chance that any years-old misrepresentations to immigration authorities could pose legal problems for her today.

While Trump and her husband, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, have said she came to the United States legally, her own statements suggest she first came to the country on a short-term visa that would not have authorized her to work as a model. Trump has also said she came to New York in 1996, but the nude photo shoot places her in the United States in 1995, as does a biography published in February by Slovenian journalists.

The inconsistencies come on top of reports by CBS News and GQ Magazine that Trump falsely claimed to have obtained a college degree in Slovenia but could be more politically damaging because her husband has made opposition to illegal immigration the foundation of his presidential run.

Representatives of the Trump campaign and the Trump Organization did not address detailed questions about the timing and circumstances of Melania Trump?s arrival in the country, but campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks responded to the emailed questions by stating, ?Melania followed all applicable laws and is now a proud citizen of the United States.?

In a statement issued hours after POLITICO published this report, Trump reiterated on Thursday that she had been ?at all times in compliance with the immigration laws of this country.? But her statement conspicuously avoids addressing multiple reports and photographs that place her in the United States and working as a model in 1995, as well as her multiple past statements that she would return every few months to Europe to renew her visa. (Other news outlets, including Bloomberg View, have also noted the inconsistencies in her account.)
Melania Trump issued a statement following POLITICO's reporting that avoided the questions raised in the story.


Although she may be a proud citizen, Trump?s own statements suggest she may not have followed all applicable laws, immigration experts say.

In a January profile in Harper?s Bazaar, Trump said she would return home from New York to renew her visa every few months. ?It never crossed my mind to stay here without papers. That is just the person you are,? she said. ?You follow the rules. You follow the law. Every few months you need to fly back to Europe and stamp your visa. After a few visas, I applied for a green card and got it in 2001.?

In a February interview with Mika Brzezinski of MSNBC?s ?Morning Joe,? Trump repeated that characterization of her early years in the United States. ?I never thought to stay here without papers. I had visa. I travel every few months back to the country to Slovenia to stamp the visa. I came back. I applied for the green card. I applied for the citizenship later on.?

The Trump campaign and Trump Organization representatives did not address questions about the type of visa Trump first used to enter the country, but it has been widely reported that she came here on an H-1B work visa. Writer Mickey Rapkin, who interviewed Melania for a May profile in the luxury lifestyle magazine DuJour, said she confirmed as much to him. ?When I interviewed Melania, I mentioned that she?d come to New York on that H-1B visa, and she nodded in agreement,? Rapkin wrote in an email to POLITICO.

Trump?s tale of returning to Europe for periodic visa renewals is inconsistent with her holding an H-1B visa at all times she was living in New York ? even if it was the lesser-known H-1B visa specifically designed for models ? said multiple immigration attorneys and experts. An H-1B visa can be valid for three years and can be extended up to six years ? sometimes longer ? and would not require renewals in Europe every few months. If, as she has said, Trump came to New York in 1996 and obtained a green card in 2001, she likely would not have had to return to Europe even once to renew an H-1B.

Instead, Trump?s description of her periodic renewals in Europe are more consistent with someone traveling on a B-1 Temporary Business Visitor or B-2 Tourist Visa, which typically last only up to six months and do not permit employment.

If someone were to enter the United States on one of those visas with the intention of working, it could constitute visa fraud, according to Andrew Greenfield, a partner at the Washington office of Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, a firm that specializes in immigration law.

?It's quintessential,? he said. ?If you enter the United States with the intention of working without authorization and you present yourself to a border agent at an airport or a seaport or a manned border and request a visa, even if there is not a Q&A ? knowing that you are coming to work ? you are implicitly, if not explicitly, manifesting that you intend to comply with the parameters of the visa classification for which you sought entry and were granted entry."

?There are quirky exceptions to people on a B-1 visa who are able to work ? certain domestic servants who are entering the country to accompany their employers who are in the country temporarily,? added Greenfield. ?But I can?t imagine that would apply to models.?

?If Melania was traveling to the U.S. on a B-1 business visa, there is a potential problem,? said a Washington-based partner of a major national immigration law firm. ?She would not have been authorized to work in the U.S. while on a B-1 visa. In fact, if a customs agent encounters someone entering the U.S. on a B-1 visa and they know that the individual intends to work for a U.S. employer, the individual will usually be denied admission. In order to avoid being sent back to Slovenia, she may have had to lie about the purpose of her trip.?

Visa fraud would call into question a green card application and subsequent citizenship application, said immigration lawyers ? thus raising questions about Melania Trump?s legal status, even today, despite her marriage to a U.S. citizen.

Violations of U.S. visa law are hardly unusual, particularly in the modeling industry. It was a common practice in the 1990s in New York for less scrupulous agencies to bring in foreign models to work illegally on temporary business and tourist visas, according to Sara Ziff, founder of the Model Alliance, a group that advocates improved labor standards for fashion models.

The timing of Trump?s arrival in New York remains hazy, and representatives of the Trump campaign and Trump Organization did not address questions about that timing. In a previously unpublished portion of an April interview conducted for a profile in GQ, Trump told POLITICO?s Julia Ioffe that she lived with Matthew Atanian, her first known roommate in New York, only for a few weeks. ?I was busy and I was traveling a lot. And then after that, after a month of two, I found my own place,? Trump said.

But in an interview for the same profile, Atanian told Ioffe that they shared the apartment for a period that spanned 1995 to 1996, and Atanian told POLITICO this week that he and Trump shared the apartment for a total of a year to a year and a half. He said he recalled Trump leaving the country to travel home for holidays during that period.

Trump has said she came to New York in 1996, but multiple reports indicate she first started doing work there in 1995. Her personal website was taken down last month in the wake of reports that its biography section falsely credited her with earning a college degree. (Trump tweeted that the website was taken down ?because it does not accurately reflect my current business and professional interests.?) An archived snapshot of that bio page describes Trump as ?settling in New York in 1996,? and she told Brzezinski in January, ?I came to New York 1996.?

But according to ?Melania Trump: The Inside Story,? a biography published in February by two Slovenian authors ? journalist Bojan Po?ar and publicist Igor Omerza ? Trump ?began moving to New York in 1995.? The book also states that Trump first met a close friend, the model Edit Molnar, ?in New York in the middle of 1995.?

?In 1995 she started coming to the USA according to the jobs she was getting at fashion agencies,? wrote Po?ar in an email to POLITICO. ?We don?t know the exact dates of those before she officially settled in New York but her visits prior to that were temporary business opportunities that she had as a model.? Po?ar said he learned of these first jobs in America from two fashion agents, one in Italy and the other in Vienna, and that such trips abroad were common for Eastern European models but not ?technically? legal.

Po?ar?s timing is consistent with the New York Post?s report. The nude photos were taken in New York in 1995 for the January 1996 issue of France?s now-defunct Max Magazine, according to the tabloid.

Al? de Basseville, the photographer who shot the photos, told POLITICO that the shoot took place in a private studio near Manhattan?s Union Square. He declined to name the owner of the studio and said that he encountered Trump through Metropolitan Models, a Paris-based agency with a New York office that was then representing Trump.

To carry out the 1995 New York photo shoot legally, Trump would have required a working visa, likely an H-1B, even if she were not yet living in the United States, as her native Slovenia was not part of the State Department?s visa waiver program until 1997.

Paolo Zampolli, an Italian businessman who was then a partner in Metropolitan and is credited with sponsoring Trump?s entry into the United States and introducing her to her future husband, said that he did not recall that particular shoot or the exact timing of Trump?s first arrival in New York.

Zampolli said the models he worked with would have entered the country on either an H-1B or an O-1, a visa for foreigners who possess ?extraordinary ability.? O-1 visas are frequently given to star scientists, athletes and entertainers, but because Melania Knauss (her maiden name) was an obscure model who mostly posed for advertisements and catalogs in the mid-?90s, it is highly unlikely she qualified for an O-1, which comes with an initial stay period of up to three years, said immigration attorneys. An O-1 visa would also not have required her to leave the country periodically.

Zampolli said he first met Trump in Milan and that models he worked for moved across international borders legally. ?Every model we represented, we did a visa,? he said. ?It?s just part of the rules.?

Even Melania?s use of the H-1B program would stand in contrast to her husband?s position today. Trump, who has made his opposition to illegal immigration the centerpiece of his campaign, has also vowed to crack down on the use of H1-B visas as president. In March, he said he would ?end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions.?

So she couldn't have had an H1-B, because that would not require her to travel back every few months to renew or stamp the visa. The only visas that require return to the home country every few months are tourist visas, which explicitly prohibit the individual to work. Modeling is work. Even if she somehow had an H1-B (unlikely), those allow you to work for a specific employer for a period of 3-6 years. You can't go around working with whoever photographer calls you.

In addition to lying about the purpose of her stay in the U.S. it is worth stressing that you can't just apply for a green card, as if you are applying for a credit card.
 
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marcos_eirik

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Well, this is rather interesting. As it turns out, Melania Trump may have come to the U.S. illegally. So much for coming here the "right way."

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/melania-trump-immigration-donald-226648

Gaps in Melania Trump's immigration story raise questions



So she couldn't have had an H1-B, because that would not require her to travel back every few months to renew or stamp the visa. The only visas that require return to the home country every few months are tourist visas, which explicitly prohibit the individual to work. Modeling is work. Even if she somehow had an H1-B (unlikely), those allow you to work for a specific employer for a period of 3-6 years. You can't go around working with whoever photographer calls you.

In addition to lying about the purpose of her stay in the U.S. it is worth stressing that you can't just apply for a green card, as if you are applying for a credit card.
If Melania Trump has worked illegally for 3-6 years untill she got her green card in 2001, then that would be seriously embarrassing for the Donald's law-and-order-campaign.

Also, I wonder what sanctions she may risk for that. (OT-stuff below)
I'm not familiar with the fine details of the US immigration system, but I can't imagine it's much less strict than Norway's. As a lawyer specializing in immigration law I can assure you she would get into a lot of shit for working illegally for 6 years, plus the fact that she lied about the purpose of her stay. That's two violations: 1) Illegal work 2) Reporting incorrect information. If something like that is uncovered in Norway, the Directorate of Immigration (UDI) would consider revoking her citizenship. If the citizenship is revoked, underlaying permits are also revoked as a consequence.

If the citizenship is revoked they would also consider expulsion. A violation like this, more than 1 year of illegal work though under valid residence permit, and incorrect information regarding that stay would land her a prohibition of entry of 5 years, and a registration in the Schengen Information System (SIS) for the same amount of time, effectively denying her entry into the entire Schengen area for the duration of the prohibition of entry.
 
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Firecat

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Like with her speech, I couldn't care less about whether or not she worked illegally when in the United States. I don't even consider it news....especially with every thing Trump has said over the last few days.
 

_HighVoltage_

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Like with her speech, I couldn't care less about whether or not she worked illegally when in the United States. I don't even consider it news....especially with every thing Trump has said over the last few days.

You may not, but considering that Trump's fanbase and major campaign point is stopping illegal immigration, it is kind of hypocritical.

If it turns out to be true, it won't surprise me at all - I have heard a lot of stories of Eastern Europeans who came to the U.S. in the 90s on tourist visas, or temporary work visas (student exchange) they overstayed them and stayed illegally. Prior to 2001 it was relatively easy to get "amnesty" for living illegally in the U.S. and apply for citizenship. Ironically, a lot of these people now claim to have come here "the right way."
 

Firecat

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Well, it all went down (if true) before they met or married. Undoubtedly a lot of people have done it, which is why the wall is kind of a stupid thing. Most illegals come here legally and overstay (if I'm not mistaken).
 

rickhamilton620

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So it's a bad time to vote third party when both major candidates are terrible? Aside from that making zero sense, did either of you vote third party in 2012 when the major candidates weren't as bad as they are today? Or did you come up with some other excuse? How about 2008?


Basically, look at this carefully and take a few minutes to think:

if-stalin-ran-and-hitler-ran-asademocrat-asa-republican-the-3181305.png

I didn't vote third party in those two elections because I was 100% content with the choices presented to me. It helped that I also wasn't completely disillusioned by the primary process.

I know, it's ass backwards thinking when now is the best time than ever to go third party. But they're both not just terrible....one's like....super duper terrible.

I haven't given up on my #demexit dreams yet...but Trump is testing my resolve a bit lol.
 

_HighVoltage_

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Well, it all went down (if true) before they met or married. Undoubtedly a lot of people have done it, which is why the wall is kind of a stupid thing. Most illegals come here legally and overstay (if I'm not mistaken).
About 4 million of the presently undocumented people in the U.S. came here through some kind of visa that they overstayed.
 
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xuri

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Is there anybody here who, given that choice and only that choice, wouldn't vote Stalin?
 
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