2016 USA Presidential Elections

It wouldn't exactly be difficult to get Mexico to pay for the wall... Slap a 30% tariff on all of their imports - either they will agree to pay for the wall or the tariff will pay for it. Or freeze all outgoing money transfers between the US and Mexico and see how long they hold out. Trump is a loudmouth but he isn't stupid - when he says Mexico will pay for the wall, he knows damn well that he'd be able to deliver on that promise.

So millions of Mexican citizens and legal immigrants living in the U.S. will be punished and pay for the actions of those who cross illegally? You don't want your taxes to pay for the costs associated with undocumented immigrants, but why should Mexican citizens living in Mexico pay for them? Just because they are from the same country?
 
It wouldn't exactly be difficult to get Mexico to pay for the wall... Slap a 30% tariff on all of their imports - either they will agree to pay for the wall or the tariff will pay for it. Or freeze all outgoing money transfers between the US and Mexico and see how long they hold out. Trump is a loudmouth but he isn't stupid - when he says Mexico will pay for the wall, he knows damn well that he'd be able to deliver on that promise.

As far as his speech in Mexico - everyone criticizes his rough style and laughs at how ridiculous he'd be as President interacting with world leaders, yet when he is "polite, conciliatory, and willing to work together" that's not good enough either. Make up your mind already.

One little problem with that plan...

But then again, international politics and macroeconomics are not exactly Trump's wheelhouse.
 
So millions of Mexican citizens and legal immigrants living in the U.S. will be punished and pay for the actions of those who cross illegally? You don't want your taxes to pay for the costs associated with undocumented immigrants, but why should Mexican citizens living in Mexico pay for them? Just because they are from the same country?
No, because that country is unwilling to do anything about illegal border crossings.


One little problem with that plan...

But then again, international politics and macroeconomics are not exactly Trump's wheelhouse.
NAFTA terms can be renegotiated, can't they? I think that's a provision.
 
No, because that country is unwilling to do anything about illegal border crossings.[...]

A fence build by someone to keep someone else out is one thing, a fence to keep someone inside a completely different one.

The first thing is protecting what?s yours, the other is called a prison. Mexico is not North Korea nor the GDR. Demanding that they turn into one of those countries is absurd (which is what you?re doing when you say they should lock their people up or pay).
Build a wall if you think that helps you (the Us) and ignore the many people saying that it will more likely harm you. But don?t tell another country to lock their people up (or pay for their failure to do so).

If you (the Us, again) wanna go all bunker and hide behind a wall ... that?s on you and you?re getting the bill.

In slightly related news ... Great Britain's Problem - Great Britain's money.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...or-migrants-to-be-flown-home-from-Calais.html
Britain to pay for migrants to be flown home from Calais
Theresa May, the Home Secretary, says that the government will spend more than ?7 million over the next two years to ease pressure on Calais[...]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/07/europe/calais-wall-migrants/
Construction will begin soon on a "big new wall" in the French port city of Calais to prevent refugees and migrants from entering Britain, the UK has announced.
The four-meter (13 foot) high wall is part of a ?17 million ($23 million) deal struck between Britain and France earlier this year to try to block migrants from crossing the English Channel.
"We've done the fence. Now we're doing a wall," British Immigration Minister Robert Goodwill announced at a government hearing on Tuesday.[...]
"The security we're putting in at the ports is being stepped up with better equipment. We're going to start building this big new wall very soon as part of the ?17 million package that we're doing with the French," he said.
 
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I didn't say anything about a wall (that Trump supports) or a fence (that Hillary likes) - I don't think it's a particularly great idea on its own. But Mexico hasn't done anything about illegal crossing in the south, nor has it been very successful at fighting cartels or corruption.
 
Mexico isn't doing anything about drug cartels, the government gets paid enough to ignore the problem. In any case, you should be for that. Right? Private institution telling the government what to do and all.
You have no idea what's going on, do you?
 
NAFTA terms can be renegotiated, can't they? I think that's a provision.

I buy things from the US, from time to time. I was genuinely amazed by how many of those proud US brands sell things with "Made in Mexico" written on them.

NAFTA terms -can- be renegotiated. The other party of a negotiation might want to have a say in the negotiation itself.
 
I buy things from the US, from time to time. I was genuinely amazed by how many of those proud US brands sell things with "Made in Mexico" written on them.

NAFTA terms -can- be renegotiated. The other party of a negotiation might want to have a say in the negotiation itself.

cough*Harley*cough
 
Lev, I can respect your reasons for disliking/critiquing Clinton, but I don't understand or support your justification of Trump. One of his recent statements baffles me again (at this point, I shouldn't be surprised...):

"I just don?t think she has a presidential look, and you need a presidential look. You have to get the job done. I think if she went to Mexico she would have had a total failure. We had a big success.?

1. Even if we disregard the obvious issue with gender, what does Trump mean by looking presidential? And then he immediately follows it with "you have to get the job done." So only people who look presidential (whatever the fuck that means) can get the job done? It's all about appearances?
2. Trump is speculating about what could have/would have happened if Clinton went to Mexico.
3. What exactly was the big success of that meeting in Mexico?
 
1. Even if we disregard the obvious issue with gender, what does Trump mean by looking presidential? And then he immediately follows it with "you have to get the job done." So only people who look presidential (whatever the fuck that means) can get the job done? It's all about appearances?

Sadly, it seems a lot of Americans have a thing about someone "looking presidential." Howard Dean torpedoed his entire campaign by being "overly excited" at a rally and shouting "wooo!"
 
Lev, I can respect your reasons for disliking/critiquing Clinton, but I don't understand or support your justification of Trump.
Liberals are foaming at the mouth when it comes to Trump to the point where they will argue against anything and everything he says or does just out of spite - this is stupid, short-sighted, and immature.

I am no fan of the Donald but in terms of immigration:
-He wants to deport all illegals - I disagree with this.
-He wants to build a wall - I think this is useless without addressing other issues, which is something Gary Johnson is much better on.
-He wants to make Mexico pay for the wall - I think that if we're actually building this thing, then it would be possible to make Mexico pay for it one way or another.

This isn't really support or justification of Trump. This is just looking at the issue objectively.


1. Even if we disregard the obvious issue with gender, what does Trump mean by looking presidential? And then he immediately follows it with "you have to get the job done." So only people who look presidential (whatever the fuck that means) can get the job done? It's all about appearances?
You're not going to score any points with me by bringing up bullshit gender issues (again) - what's next, the made up gender wage gap?

Moving on...

This man looks "presidential":

jfk.gif


This man looks like a fool:

n_hardball_4dukakis_131118.blocks_desktop_large.jpg



Got it? No? Ok, let's try again.


Presidential:

454px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg



Fool:

405px-Jimmy_Carter.jpg




2. Trump is speculating about what could have/would have happened if Clinton went to Mexico.
And Hillary is speculating that Trump would lead us to nuclear war. What is your point?
This is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes because it's not hard to imagine Donald Trump leading us into a war just because somebody got under his very thin skin.


3. What exactly was the big success of that meeting in Mexico?
You can't expect him to come out and say that it was unsuccessful, can you? Come on...
 
So if teeth are showing, they are a fool?
 
jfk-crisis-documentary-robert-drew-national-film-archive.jpg


teddy-roosevelt.jpg


b42e9541dff06865c81485d42cef64e2.jpg


donald-trump-ugly.jpg


The are embarrassing photos of pretty much anyone living a public life. And frankly, Trump, to me, looks the least "presidential" than anyone above, or even Hillary most of the time. He likes looks, talks and gesticulates like a pouty toddler...oh, but he wears a tie...
 
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This man looks "presidential":

jfk.gif


This man looks like a fool:

n_hardball_4dukakis_131118.blocks_desktop_large.jpg



Got it? No? Ok, let's try again.


Presidential:

454px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg



Fool:

405px-Jimmy_Carter.jpg

No, I don't get it. What's your criteria for judgment here? Based on looks alone, which is Trump's point, why does Jimmy Carter look like a fool?

It's one thing to argue that so and so past president is a model for what acting presidential means - based on their performance, impact, leadership, etc...

Trump's point is that in evaluating future leaders, who have not served as president yet, a certain look is required. If he were to make a case about acting with presidential decorum, fine, but he is merely talking about physical appearance. He is not saying that she would have failed in Mexico because of her corrupt character, her lies, or any other thing you can reasonably claim, Trump is saying she would have failed because she doesn't look presidential.
You can't expect him to come out and say that it was unsuccessful, can you? Come on...
Not the point - I'm not arguing that his trip was unsuccessful, I'm just asking him to define what constitutes this "big success." What was accomplished? What made it "big" as opposed to medium success?

I'm tired of Trump's empty hyperbole. He had a big success...no one know exactly what. He has a fool-proof plan to defeat ISIS quickly...but he won't tell anyone what it is. With most other policy questions he just deflects to - "We're just going to do it, okay? We're going to make America great again, okay?"

The time has come to be more specific and provide details about his grandiose plans.
 
What would Trump be without empty hyperbole?

And hey, people look different. Some people look intelligent and some stupid. Some also dress and carry themselves better than others. In this case neither candidate looks presidential to me, although Trump has been trying hard lately.
 
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