5 freedoms you'd lose in health care reform

Dogbert

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Sadly, you can't get a Congress repair man for your national assembly.
We could, if it passed through the Senate Repairman Sub-Committee, but would probably be filibustered on the floor by some Senator in Texas or Alaska or someplace.

But then again, that would be cruel, and most of them wouldn't be in the bloody building anyway.
Truths. When my friend worked in the Missouri capitol, he had a similar sentiment.
 

nomix

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We could, if it passed through the Senate Repairman Sub-Committee, but would probably be filibustered on the floor by some Senator in Texas or Alaska or someplace.
And the reps would call it socialist brainwashing, comparable to stalinism.

Truths. When my friend worked in the Missouri capitol, he had a similar sentiment.
One thing I've noted over the years is that politicians lie and cheap. I'm sort of fine with that, that's the real world (and not by any means restricted to politics), but that it could go so wrong as your politics have, that's a new high.
 

Plissken

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Because your complete political system is broken.

This. This x 100.

The Republicans aren't voting "No" because it is a bad bill, they are voting "No" because it is a Democrats bill. Or an Obama bill. They aren't looking out for their electorate, they are looking out for their campaign funds.

As nomix says, completely, irrecoverably broken. Politics isn't black and white, it isn't my side against your side, it isn't I'll cheer my team to the bitter end.

Somewhere along the line the US confused politics with football.
 

nomix

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Indeed it was. Jack Ryan was a good president. What I think you need is Martin Sheen as president. He looks presidential, and he ought to have picked up a little experience about the precidency from the West Wing.
 

nomix

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Well, if we're to believe the conspiracy theorists about the Swine Flu, his novel Rainbow Six was a history text book.
 

Twerp128

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And the reps would call it socialist brainwashing, comparable to stalinism.


One thing I've noted over the years is that politicians lie and cheap. I'm sort of fine with that, that's the real world (and not by any means restricted to politics), but that it could go so wrong as your politics have, that's a new high.
Come to America, live here for a bit. You don't really know how it works ;) Stereotypes are fun until you start convincing yourself they're true.

Because for all the propaganda, negativity, and misinformation in this thread. America, the worst country in the world, with the most corrupt, profiteering, idiotic, and selfish politicians* have made great steps in pushing through a healthcare reform bill in less than a year. Talk is cheap.

*According to FinalGear
 
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joangreenwood

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Come to America, live here for a bit. You don't really know how it works ;) Stereotypes are fun until you start convincing yourself they're true.

Because for all the propaganda, negativity, and misinformation in this thread. America, the worst country in the world, with the most corrupt, profiteering, idiotic, and selfish politicians* have made great steps in pushing through a healthcare reform bill in less than a year. Talk is cheap.

*According to FinalGear

Stereotypes are psychological fail, basically. But that's basic Psychology.

Anyway, there is things that I may have misunderstood about American politics but the thing is I never seem to bump into - in my mad meanderings in the superinformation highway - a vaguely progressive, moderate Republican.

I mean, when that Twitter-war-type-thingamajig about the NHS was kicking off, I said yay for the NHS and made what I think is a brilliant point that the NHS saved the life of the Doctor (Spearhead from Space, Jon Pertwee) and American healthcare killed him in the TV Movie (Sylvester McCoy -> Paul McGann). But that's not the point (or is it? I can't remember) For merely stating my views I got called some rather nasty things.

But that's the Internet for you. Charlie Brooker has an excellant quote about such nonsense. I think with the advent of this, all the really extreme folk get more air than the moderate, yeah?

I've watched Fox News and I've seen some of the mince they are chucking up for "news". It's both funny and soul-destroying at the same time.

Some of the attitudes towards this does make my blood run cold. Maybe I'm just a silly leftie (I have no idea why Liberal is used so much. It doesn't really say much. I kinda border/flit between Liberal Democrats and moderate Socialistic Democrat. That makes no sense but it makes sense to me which I suppose is...yeah.) but I've read some (not on this thread, I haven't read it so I'm jumping in head first) views that health care is a privilidge and not a right which just contradicts everything I hold dear.

It also might be because I'm a welfare state urchin who wouldn't be here without it.
 

nomix

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When I say that US politics is broken, I'm not saying it because I disagree with the policies being pushed, or because I disagree with the politicians.

I'm saying it because American politics is bogged down in special interest, it's to divided (the democrats and republicans differ, but not that much). The fundamental problem with American politics is the underlying polarisation of it. When referring to the republicans, I should've taken more care to specify I wasn't talking about the moderate part of the republican party, but the ultra-conservative part, though.

American politics started to rot around the 1799 election.
 

tigger

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Because your complete political system is broken. It's not Obama that's the problem, if anything, he's making an effort, your Senate and the House are broken.
The Republicans aren't voting "No" because it is a bad bill, they are voting "No" because it is a Democrats bill. Or an Obama bill. They aren't looking out for their electorate, they are looking out for their campaign funds.
The Republicans don't have a plan. They don't want to debate the Democrats plan. They don't even want it on the Senate floor. For fucks sake, they were trying to block the cloture vote. No party has ever done that. Civil rights legislation had an easier time getting on the floor than this did.

70% of Americans want a public option, but at least half our Congressmen are against it? What's going on here? Oh right, insurance companies are spending tens of millions of dollars in advertising and "campaign contributions" to make sure this legislation fails.

This whole thing just pisses me off. The GOP obviously does not give a damn about the 1 in 7 Americans without health insurance. The Democratic leadership is too weak-willed to get this right or call the Republicans on all their bullshit. So we're going to get stuck with a fucked up, even more expensive bureaucracy when we should just have universal coverage. Problem solved.
 
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jetsetter

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Virginia Senate: Health insurance not mandatory
by Ross Catrow February 1, 2010

Virginia?s Senate just passed a preemptive bill preventing a health insurance mandate. The bill, SB417, passed 23-17. The current split of the Senate is 22 Democrats and 18 Republicans; all Republicans voted for the bill as well as five Democrats (Edd Houck, Charles Colgan, Phil Puckett, John Miller, Roscoe Reynolds).

Here?s the text of the bill:

Individual health insurance coverage; requirement to obtain. Provides that a resident of the Commonwealth shall not be required to obtain or maintain a policy of individual insurance coverage. This applies regardless of whether the person has or is eligible for health insurance coverage under any policy or program provided by or through his employer or a plan sponsored by the Commonwealth or the federal government. The measure also states that no provision of Title 38.2 renders a resident liable for any penalty, assessment, fee, or fine as a result of his failure to procure or obtain health insurance coverage.

This bill is in opposition to the Democrat led efforts to pass Federal healthcare/insurance legislation, part of which includes a provision for a health insurance mandate.

The corresponding House bill is HB10 and is currently waiting in the Commerce and Labor committee for voting. HB10 passed the subcommittee 8-2.

Update

Here is the full list of votes:

YEAS ? Blevins, Colgan, Hanger, Houck, Hurt, Martin, McDougle, McWaters, Miller, J.C., Newman, Norment, Obenshain, Puckett, Quayle, Reynolds, Ruff, Smith, Stosch, Stuart, Vogel, Wagner, Wampler, Watkins

NAYS ? Barker, Deeds, Edwards, Herring, Howell, Locke, Lucas, Marsden, Marsh, McEachin, Miller, Y.B., Northam, Petersen, Puller, Saslaw, Ticer, Whipple.

http://rvanews.com/features/virginia-senate-health-insurance-not-mandatory
 

AiR

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How odd.
 

tigger

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What the fuck is wrong with these people? All of a sudden everyone loves their insurance company ... the same one that's been bending them over the table for the last 20 years. And making sure everyone has access to healthcare (without going bankrupt) is communist. Like has been said by a few others on here: No one wants to hear the facts. No one wants to debate them. They just want to get fucked over because it's American!!!!.

Talk about losing faith in your countrymen.
 

argatoga

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The insurance companies have the most to gain from the current universal heath care reform. It is a scam to help them and screw more people over.

I would like universal heath care in the US, but the current plan is crap.
 

marcos_eirik

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What the fuck is wrong with these people? All of a sudden everyone loves their insurance company ... the same one that's been bending them over the table for the last 20 years. And making sure everyone has access to healthcare (without going bankrupt) is communist. Like has been said by a few others on here: No one wants to hear the facts. No one wants to debate them. They just want to get fucked over because it's American!!!!.

Talk about losing faith in your countrymen.
Never underestimate the persuasive powers of the propaganda machine that is Fox Noise... ;)
 

nomix

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It's not just Fox, it's the deeply implanted ideological buffer called the American dream. It was the ideological buffer that made sure Hoover wouldn't make sure people had stuff to eat, it was what made enough people realize that the dream didn't work, which put FDR in office, however, it also got in his way all of the time.

People say Social Security is the third rail of American politics. That's bullshit. The third rail of American politics is the American dream. It's the single thing that has been the biggest restriction on common sense pragmatism.. ever.

Not everybody can pull themselves up by their boot straps.

America has one big problem. The idea of the American dream. It's as addictive as heroin.
 

British_Rover

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What the fuck is wrong with these people? All of a sudden everyone loves their insurance company ... the same one that's been bending them over the table for the last 20 years. And making sure everyone has access to healthcare (without going bankrupt) is communist. Like has been said by a few others on here: No one wants to hear the facts. No one wants to debate them. They just want to get fucked over because it's American!!!!.

Talk about losing faith in your countrymen.

I have gone over my own fight, that is still on going now, with my insurance company to cover things they are supposed to cover.

I spent more per year on health insurance premiums and my "$4,000" deductible, that is really $5,000 plus because there is always $1,000 some dollars that the insurance company refuses to cover, then pay in federal income tax, SS Tax and medicare.

Lets total it up.

$4,190 in premiums for 2009 and of course that went up for 2010 by another 700 some dollars. My deducible is really $4,000 but there is always that junk that they refuse to cover so figure $5,000 but my company covers $1,000.

So $8,190 I pay per year for myself my wife and my son before the insurance company will pay for a dime.

Between my wife and myself Federal taxes, state taxes, medicare and SS don't total nearly that much. All of those payments combined are just slightly more then my insurance premiums last year.

My main reason for supporting the insurance bill in some form was the removal of the pre-existing conditions clauses and rescissions.

My wife has never had health insurance that would offer almost any coverage for nearly anything to do with her head exluding glasses or dental related things.

Why?

Because she has been hearing impaired since near birth and whenever anything comes up remotely related to her head they say it is part of a pre-existing condition.

Headaches?
Nope not covered

Migraines?
Not covered.

A few years ago she was getting these pounding headaches and they just kept getting progressively worse. Went to see her regular doctor and he was very concerned. Thought she might be having a aneurysm or stroke of some kind. Had her go downstairs to another office where they did an immediate MRI to make sure nothing was bursting in her brain.

Insurance company wouldn't cover it. Pre-Existing condition related to her near total deafness. :mad:

FUCKING BULLSHIT

$2,000 plus dollar bill that I refused to pay.

A year plus fighting that we settled for about 900 dollars.

All the time bullshit like that happened.
 

Plissken

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The insurance companies have the most to gain from the current universal heath care reform. It is a scam to help them and screw more people over.

No they really don't. That is why they spent $300 million to try and sink it. They've bought advertising and politicians - if they were to benefit, would they really be fighting so hard? It is typical "black=white" propaganda and you can't afford to fall for it.

And that $300 million is coming from existing payers for their health insurance. The customers are paying to fight something that benefits them. I can't emphasise that point enough.

So when it comes to the balance sheet at the end of the day, the ordinary Joe is going to get screwed even more to keep profits up.

British Rover said:
So $8,190 I pay per year for myself my wife and my son before the insurance company will pay for a dime.

I sympathise. To put that in perspective, I pay $5000 a year and my wife and I are covered for practically anything. (OK, so I paid for my six month dental checkup yesterday - $25 well spent.)
 

tigger

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What the insurance companies really wanted gone was public option. And while the current legislation forces them to cover people with pre-existing conditions, not drop paying customers etc, it also nets them ~40 million more customers (at the taxpayers expense). The current legislation cements the insurance companies place in our system ... without offering any alternative.
 
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