Alfa Romeo loses their soul!

Bundesautobahn

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Only got the Dutch article http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?ID=6502 but the bottom line is that Alfa Romeo is going to scrap the GT 3,2 V6 (for the 166). Not a big deal you would say but you have to know that the other 6 Cilinder Alfa's are being created with alot of parts coming from General Motors. The sound, the good response when putting the pedal to the metal. It's gone. :(

Or am i overdoing it? :p
 
Not a big deal you would say but you have to know that the other 6 Cilinder Alfa's are being created with alot of parts coming from General Motors. The sound, the good response when putting the pedal to the metal. It's gone.

The 3.2 is basically a GM engine already.
 
mostly from parts made here in melbourne aren't they?
 
Only got the Dutch article http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?ID=6502 but the bottom line is that Alfa Romeo is going to scrap the GT 3,2 V6 (for the 166). Not a big deal you would say but you have to know that the other 6 Cilinder Alfa's are being created with alot of parts coming from General Motors. The sound, the good response when putting the pedal to the metal. It's gone. :(

Or am i overdoing it? :p

I thought they had already gone and designed a new v6 when GM bought into Fiat. They are using the same block as the current "World V6"/HFv6."

And just because they base their engine around an "inferior design" (this is what your implying), doesn't mean they won't tweak on it till it does what they need. Look at how nice the SBC's become once they are warmed over, let alone heavily reworked.

Alfa already knows they have a certain sound to their engines and buyers want that.
 
I must say I wasn't impressed when I test-drove a Brera with the new 3.2 V6, and neither was the buddy of mine who organised it, the owner of an Alfa GT with the old V6 by the way. The new one pulls away fine, but runs out of steam at revs, which you won't expect from a spposedly emotional italian car. My friend said that the old engine was great, picking up from 3000 revs and just screaming on. The new one feels very meaty up to 3500, but then just slowly dies above. So yes, I agree, that Alfa has lost a big chunk of their soul with putting in this new enigne.

Regards
the Interceptor
 
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Holden is owned by GM remember?

so? a gallardo isn't a VW either, is it?

holden made the enigne according to their design, and their research. GM might have paid for it, but it weren't their designed who made it. so imho it's a holden, not a GM
 
so? a gallardo isn't a VW either, is it?

holden made the enigne according to their design, and their research. GM might have paid for it, but it weren't their designed who made it. so imho it's a holden, not a GM

The 3.2 V6 is a variant of the GM High Feature family of engines. This family of engines was introduced on the CTS in 2004.

The 3600 LY7 (and derivative LP1) are members of General Motors' new High Feature (or HFV6) engine family of modern DOHC V6s. This new family of engines was introduced in 2004 with the Cadillac CTS. Holden sells the HFV6 under the name, Alloytec. The block was designed to be expandable from 2.8 L to 4.0 L.

It is a 60? 24-valve design with aluminum block and heads and Sequential Electronic Fuel Injection. Most versions feature continuously-variable cam phasing on both intake and exhaust valves and electronic throttle control. Other features include piston oil-jet capability, forged crankshaft and connecting rods, variable intake, and electronic throttle control. It was developed by the same international team responsible for the Ecotec, including the Opel engineers responsible for the 54? V6, with involvement with design and development engineering from Ricardo PLC of England.

High Feature V6 engines are produced at Fisherman's Bend in Port Melbourne, Australia, St. Catharines in Canada, and Flint Engine South in Flint, Michigan.

Alfa Romeo
Alfa Romeo uses the High Feature engine design, though with many modifications, as the JTS V6. The Alfa unit features lean-burn technology as on many other engines from the company. It displaces 3.2 L (3195 cc) and has an output of 191 kW (260 hp) at 6200 rpm and 322 N?m (237 ft?lbf) torque, with gasoline direct injection allowing a high compression ratio of 11.25:1. Engine is equipped also with cam-phasing on both inlet and exhaust side, thus the name "TwinPhaser".

Applications:

2005 Alfa Romeo 159
2006 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon
2005 Alfa Romeo Brera
2006 Alfa Romeo Spider

Holden 3.2
Holden has built its own 3.2 L version of the High Feature engine in Australia. Branded with the Alloytec name like the 3.6 L version, this version produces 227 hp (169 kW) at 6600 rpm and 219 ft?lbf (297 N?m) at 3200 rpm.

Applications:

2007 Holden Captiva
2007 Opel Antara

LY7
The 3.6 L (3564 cc) LY7 version was introduced in the 2004 Cadillac CTS sedan. It has a 10.2:1 compression ratio and produces 255 hp (190 kW) at 6200 rpm and 252 ft?lbf (342 N?m) at 3100 rpm. The bore is 3.70 in (94.0 mm) and the stroke is 3.37 in (85.6 mm). In some applications, including the Buick LaCrosse and Holden Commodore, the LY7 has an output of 235 to 262 hp (175 to 195 kW) and 225 to 251 ft?lbf (305 to 340 N?m) equipped with either cam-phasing on the inlet side only or both inlet and exhaust. Selected models also do not include variable intake. The engine weighs 370 lb as installed.

On the Lambda crossover SUVs (Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave) it is expected to produce 275 hp (205 kW) and 251 ft?lbf (340 N?m). The Holden Alloytec version has been modified to meet Euro III emissions standards. A 235 hp (175 kW) version able to run on autogas (LPG) has also been produced.

Applications:

2004 Cadillac CTS
2004 Buick Rendezvous CXL/Ultra
2004 Cadillac SRX
2004 Holden VZ Commodore
2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS
2005 Cadillac STS
2006 Holden VE Commodore
2006 Holden WM Statesman
2006 Holden WM Caprice
2007 Saturn Aura
2007 Saturn Outlook
2007 Pontiac G6 GTP
2007 GMC Acadia
Future applications:

2008 Buick Enclave
2008 Chevrolet Malibu
2008 Pontiac G8

LLT
The 3.6 L (3564 cc) LLT is a direct injected version of the LY7. It was first unveiled in May 2006, and was claimed to have 15% greater power, 8% greater torque, and 3% better fuel economy than it's port-injected counterpart. It has a compression ratio of 11.4:1, and has been certified by the SAE to produce 302 hp (225 kW) at 6300 rpm and 272 ft?lbf (369 N?m) of torque at 5200 rpm on regular unleaded gasoline. This motor will debut on the 2008 Cadillac STS and CTS.

Applications:

2008 Cadillac CTS
2008 Cadillac STS

LP1
A 2.8 L (2792 cc) LP1 variant was introduced in the 2005 Cadillac CTS. It has a 3.50 in (89.0 mm) bore, a 2.94 in (74.8 mm) stroke, and a 10.0:1 compression ratio. It generates 210 hp (156 kW) at 6500 rpm, and 194 ft?lbf (263 N?m) at 3300 rpm.

Applications:

2005?2007 Cadillac CTS

Suzuki
Suzuki builds the High Feature V6 at its Sagara, Japan plant for the Suzuki XL-7 SUV under license from General Motors. Displacing 3.6 L, this engine produces 252 hp (185 kW) at 6500 rpm and 243 ft?lbf (329 N?m) at 2300 rpm.

Applications:

2007 Suzuki XL-7

Turbo
A 2.8 L turbocharged version is used for the Saab 9-3 and other GM vehicles. It produces 250 hp DIN (184 kW) at 5500 rpm and 258 ft?lbf (350 N?m) at 2000 rpm. It has the same bore and stroke as the naturally-aspirated LP1, however the compression ratio is reduced to 9.5:1. There is also another variant available, with 230 hp DIN (169 kW). This engine is partly developed by Saab Automobile, and built in Australia.

Applications:

2007 Cadillac BLS
2006 Opel Vectra
2006 Opel Signum
2006 Saab 9-3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloytec
 
so? a gallardo isn't a VW either, is it?

holden made the enigne according to their design, and their research. GM might have paid for it, but it weren't their designed who made it. so imho it's a holden, not a GM

It's called the "World V6" (among many names) for a reason. Like the Ecotec it was built to be very tweakable according to how each company wants to use it. This is why the Alfa version makes 260hp while the Caddy uses a 3.6 to get similar hp (and superior torque).
 
The 3.2 Litre V6 in the 166 was the old Alfa motor, not the GM one. Trust me.

I actually have a 147GTA in at work for a engine rebuild (long story that one) and you can see the poor old motor is getting long in the tooth and Alfa's once proud attention to detail on their engines seem to be slipping (just look at the conrods to see what I mean)

Sadly I will admit that the new GM V6 is a better engine, still the only bit Alfa Romeo do use is the crank and the block. Thats it :)
 
Sadly I will admit that the new GM V6 is a better engine, still the only bit Alfa Romeo do use is the crank and the block. Thats it :)
It is a good engine, but no 'cuore sportivo'. Despite its age, I still think the old one was the better one.
 
Oh I love them my friend, sadly we didn't get the turbo version of the old version in Australia. Things like the design of the oil pump drive in the last version of the old motor (friction drive off the harmonic balancer then a chain) are a bit irksome. Its just not Alfa! From day dot all Alfa motors have been mechanical gems.....the V6 stated out as well....the best V6 in the world and as new emmision laws have some in it was slowly ruined....putting it in a FWD car (alfa 164 etc) wasn't a good idea, still its economics after all!

PS: These motors sound like God yawning with carbs!
 
Things like the design of the oil pump drive in the last version of the old motor (friction drive off the harmonic balancer then a chain) are a bit irksome.

:shock2: That explains so much...

Alfa's once proud attention to detail on their engines seem to be slipping (just look at the conrods to see what I mean)

You'll have to provide us with some info, we in America didn't get to many cars featuring the old v6 and none of the new one.
 
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