Another AGP Graphics card Topic...

[monkeymax]

Right, well... first off, apologies for creating yet another graphics card topic. I realise there have been a few in this section within the last couple of months, but unfortunately the technology and the prices change so much that the old information no longer quite answers my question. Or maybe I missed something.

Anyway, I've got (had) a GeForce 4200Ti I think - or 4600. Something like that; can't remember which one right now and can't find the manual. (Just remember it cost a small fortune when I built the computer in 2003) Anyway, was not having a great HL2 gaming experience with it, playing with effects turned down, low res, etc. But being a cheap student (and now graduated and unemployed) I kept refusing to replace it. Then the fan started making a grinding noise constantly so I disconnected it and have relied on passive heating for the last month and a half or so. I know, I know, not a good idea, but as I said I was p!ssed off with the card anyway. And the fan was pretty useless by the time I disconnected it anyway. I considered buying a Zalman GC cooler but ended up not doing so, just not playing games instead (been a bit busy).

And then today while I was sorting out my photos from my snowboarding holiday (just got back last night) the computer blue-screened for a couple of seconds, then I got an "out of range" error on the monitor which then went into standby mode. Since then, the computer refuses to start up and the monitor stays in standby mode, so I guess the graphics card has finally died.

The timing couldn't be any worse - as I said, I'm unemployed at the moment and just spent the last of my savings on my snowboarding holiday (before anyone says anything, planned and paid for 9 months ago).

So basically I need a new AGP graphics card. Seeing as I no longer seem to update my computer stuff till it dies (hence still using this 7yr old laptop) and don't like replacing stuff before 2 years is up at the moment, I want something half decent. But at the same time I need a new GC now as my CV and all my other admin stuff is on that computer. My Mum is willing to loan me ?100-?150 so reading what's here, and THG and reviews on eBuyer, etc I've drawn up a shortlist. So basically, has my graphics card really snuffed it as I believe and if so, which of these would you guys recommend: (oh yeah, if possible I'd like the card not to be too noisy, but I'll probably buy that Zalman GC cooler - the VF700 - sometime soon if it is noisy)

256Mb XFX AGP GEFORCE 6600GT DDR3 TV+DUAL DVI... ?132 Not my favourite retailer to buy from but seem to be the only people who have this in stock. Also, not sure if my power supply can handle it. But the 256MB will be good if I ever wanna crank games up to the 1600x1200 max. res. my monitor can support.

Asus V9999/TD/128MB 6800 ... ~?100 My current card is also an Asus. Was never happy with the software with it (drivers and utils, don't care about bundled games at all)

Point of View 6800GS 256MB... ~?160 Apparently the 6800GS series is a great range of cards for AGP at the moment. But this one is slightly overbudget. Maybe not a huge problem. But I don't know anything about this manufacturer, plus it requires 2 free molex connectors (I have none, so would need 2 splitters) and at least a 350W power supply - which is what I have but I also have 3 HDD and 1 DVD-RW. So I think in terms of power I may just be pushing it with this one.

PNY Verto GeForce 6 6600GT 128MB GDDR3... ?98 This is my favourite so far. It's the cheapest, should work with just one molex splitter, has built in hardware decoder for HDTV (handy as Hi-Def stuff is stuttery on my AMD2400+XP). Only trouble is that apparently it's loud, and compared to the XFX, slightly slower and half the RAM.

Finally, a card with a breakout box to TV and dual monitor support like my current one has would both be useful features though not neccessary (been a while since I had a second monitor).

Basically, should I bother with the faster 6600GT or the higher pipelines 6800? And what about RAM - my Ti4200 had 128MB of RAM, and so I'd have thought 256 would be a good step up.

Sorry about the long post. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; ideally I'd be buying a graphics card that would last at least a year, if not two. Until I can work up the guts to upgrade to 64bit PCI-E computing...

Cheers for any help! (though should point out this is quite urgent so will probably be buying something tomorrow morning!)

 

[andyhui01]

I would suggest the XFX 6600GT... if you want to play games these days, the 128mb just won't do... my bro uses a 256mb 6600GT Graphics card and he plays games like BF2 without any problems on a 17" monitor running 1600x1200, btw... how many W is you're power supply?

 

[swek]

Go for the 6800GS. I'm running a 6600GT and it's pretty okay for medium settings in BF2 @1280x1024 but there's no way you could run high. I'm not so sure though if your CPU could be a limiting factor. However, the extra bucks should give you additional gaming time.

Just to give you an example. I tried playing F.E.A.R. but the thing would only run in 1024x168 without stutter. Buying a 6600GT just isn't a long term investment.

 

[monkeymax]

I would suggest the XFX 6600GT... if you want to play games these days, the 128mb just won't do... my bro uses a 256mb 6600GT Graphics card and he plays games like BF2 without any problems on a 17" monitor running 1600x1200, btw... how many W is you're power supply?

My Computer's got:
AMD 2400+ XP running at 2.0GHz
Proc. Cooled with the Zalman Flower Cooler and 120mm fan
Epox 8RDA+ Mobo (which is actually an annoying piece of crap because even though it's meant to, it doesn't seem to support my RAM's full speed)
1GB OZ Technology RAM, think it's PC3200 but can't remember off hand and don't have the specs available right now (on the offending computer)
350W ThermalTake PurePower PSU (hoping to replace with a silent PSU when I can afford, 450W+, but that'll have to wait)
3 HDs, assorted (WD & Maxtor)
1 Floppy
1 Pioneer DVR-10 or something. Can't remember the exact model number but basically is a 16x DVD-RW
Ummmm... 2 case fans running at the moment.
USB bus powered Wireless USB card, no-name brand
External USB Sound card (Creative Extigy)
19" CRT with max. res of 1600x1200
PCI DAB radio card (Modular Technology)

That's it I think. Pretty much the full spec minus a couple of insignificant external bits. Sorry I'm a bit vague in places, the computer's almost 3 years old (that's most the components int he box) and it's been a few months since I last opened 'er up.

Go for the 6800GS. I'm running a 6600GT and it's pretty okay for medium settings in BF2 @1280x1024 but there's no way you could run high. I'm not so sure though if your CPU could be a limiting factor. However, the extra bucks should give you additional gaming time.

Just to give you an example. I tried playing F.E.A.R. but the thing would only run in 1024x168 without stutter. Buying a 6600GT just isn't a long term investment.

Damn, it's 1am here and I thought that was already late, and you're an hour ahead of me! There's dedication!

So, 2 differing opinions. I've not yet tried either BF2 or F.E.A.R but that's partly because I didn't think my GC could handle either, but also I've really cut down on my game playing the last 18 months due to real life getting in the way - as it is HL2 has taken me 9 months to complete and apparently I'm still nowhere near the end!

See, and I thought based on the reviews at eBuyer that the 6600GT was a great improvement over the now dead card and so should last me a year or two... hmmm...

 

[swek]

Oh don't get me wrong. A 6600GT will still be able to handle Far Cry HL2, Doom3 and so forth on High, just don't expect miracles from it. It will play the next generation of FPS games on medium but then...

Don't take my word for granted. I'm not closely following the GPU circus. There could be other options I haven't heard of.

 

[jeffy777]

I'd try to get a something in the 6800 series. The GS would be a solid choice.

My brother has a plain 6800 AGP and and it was a nice improvement over his 9700 Pro.

 

[AxlxA]

I am actually looking into buying a new graphics card soon and I have been up to my eye brows with graphics card info.

Here's the breakdown of your choices that really matters:

6600gt 128mb vs 6800GS 256.

Even though 6800GS is approximately $70USD more, the performance and quality of it is far better than the 6600gt. As I have posted many times already, i have two 6600gt 128mb, one AGP, other is PCI-E. Both cards are doing great in high settings of BF2. If you want it to play HL2, then Geforce is definitely going to give you the upper hand over the ATI's, even the x850xl(which is as expensive, even more so than the 6800GS). Geforce 6800gs is better than 6600GT because of the following:

256mb vs 128mb memory
256bit vs 128bit interface
SM3 vs SM2(off the top of my head)
Present vs Past.


the 6600gt was the budget card of choice a year ago, costing about $200USD to $160USD back in those days. And during those days, the 6800 was the top of the line card. Now you can pay the same price for a 6800GS 256mb!!!!!! This is now the budget card of choice for gamers like you and me. (I have a job, i get money but I am a trained spender.)

BTW, get the 6800GS not the 6800. GS is newer.

Secondly, try to get a XFX or a eVGA card because they both have life time warranty on the cards, so if your card fries/blue screens/ or whateve ryou're experienceing with the current video card, you have your solution!

My choice for you: eVGA 6800GS 256mb AGP - It has dual monitor support, one VGA, one DVI. S-video OUT. 5 star raiting out of 104 voters. That's gotta tell you something right?

If you can't really push out the money, i say save a little.... it's well worth it. Skip a few lunches, hold off on spending on snazzy jackets or work a part time job. I mean, if you can spend a week earning enough money for a vdieo card, that's totally worht it.

 

[TechZ]

I recommend the 6800GS as well, the 6600GT is an awesome card for the value, but if you can afford the 6800GS, get it.

Good Luck.

 

[monkeymax]

Thanks for the replies guys. They've been a bit helpful, but I'm still a bit stuck.

Even though 6800GS is approximately $70USD more, the performance and quality of it is far better than the 6600gt.

...



Secondly, try to get a XFX or a eVGA card because they both have life time warranty on the cards, so if your card fries/blue screens/ or whateve ryou're experienceing with the current video card, you have your solution!

My choice for you: eVGA 6800GS 256mb AGP - It has dual monitor support, one VGA, one DVI. S-video OUT. 5 star raiting out of 104 voters. That's gotta tell you something right?

If you can't really push out the money, i say save a little.... it's well worth it. Skip a few lunches, hold off on spending on snazzy jackets or work a part time job. I mean, if you can spend a week earning enough money for a vdieo card, that's totally worht it.

Okay, so this has really drummed home just how sweet a deal you guys can get over there in the 'States. The card you linked to was $209 - that's ?120. Over here, the same card or the XFX variant will be costing me ?180 - that's a massive $314. A lot for me right now. And I've not bought a snazzy jacket in over 2 years (so it's no longer very snazzy).

Anyway, I can see what you're all saying - get the best you can afford; which is what I did with the previous graphics card which I spent ?250 on. So I've been looking at the 6800GS even if it means I have to spend ?180. Only problem is, I've looked everywhere (as in I currently have over 10 UK online retailers windows open) and no-one has either the XFX or the eVGA cards in stock. Which is quite annoying. Well, everywhere except for here at Overclockers. Not my favourite place as I've had a bad experience with them in the past, but hey - I need a graphics card. Also, the eVGA card is in stock here.

Frustratingly at the top there is BFG card which is on special discount for this week and is very tempting. But BFG's website doesn't have a full spec. detail listing for this card. Something I'm getting more drawn to is nVidia's PureVideo Technology which has an "Adaptable Programmable Video Processor" which basically means there's an onboard chip for DVD video playback which can be programmed for additional formats (apparently this should include Hi-Def videos, which my computer currently stutters on). The XFX and eVGA cards (in the ?180 range) do have this, but I can't tell if the BFG card has it or not - is it something I should be worried about?

(Edit: BFG card's specs on it's site are here)

Also, it seems in the UK, XFX only has a 2 year warranty whereas BFG has a lifetime warranty.

My biggest concern at the moment though with regards to all the 6800GS cards is power. I know for a fact (from experience) that once I've plugged in the graphics card, Overclockers will not accept it back; whether I can actually use it or not. And if I go overbudget on the graphics card (which if I get the 6800GS I will) then I can't afford a new PSU... Plus there's the delay of waiting for the new PSU as well...

(then of course I look down on the overclockers page and see the 7800s for relatively little more money, but definately over-budget both in terms of money and power... but yum!)


So, has anyone got any opinions on the BFG card? And should I be less concerned about the power issues? The 6800GS is looking more and more tempting, in spite of the bargain basement price tag of the 6600GTs. Argh, I hate spending money when I'm limited like this! (hence why I'm asking for your help and opinions)

Thanks again guys.

 

[andyhui01]

ATI X-800's not in your mind now? I've always been an ATi Man, from a 9800 Pro to a X800... they have been great cards. Obviously you won't be able to afford the X-800GTO's in your price range but I'm sure a Basic X800 with 256mb is within your budget

 

[monkeymax]

ATI X-800's not in your mind now? I've always been an ATi Man, from a 9800 Pro to a X800... they have been great cards. Obviously you won't be able to afford the X-800GTO's in your price range but I'm sure a Basic X800 with 256mb is within your budget

TBH, never really considered the ATI cards. Should I? I'm not really fussed either way really, but I know more about the GeForce range and understand their range better than I do the ATI cards. I suppose I'm just leaning towards nVidia more as in the immediate/near future the game I'll be playing is Half-life 2 and CS:Source both of which are apparently better with nVidia - is that correct?

Also it seems that similarly specced ATI cards are more pricey than the nVidia cards...

Well, if there's any ATI cards you recommend I'll look at those too, but I really need to get a card soon...


Edit: Just been reading up a bit more and it seems I was wrong - HL2 is more Radeon oriented whereas the Doom 3 engine is more nVidia oriented. Hmmm...

 

[TechZ]

You think you pay more for hardware in UK compared to US? Come over here, I'm getting all my stuff from OcUK as a friend of mine is helping ship it over, and he's purchased loads of stuff from them with no issues whatsoever, maybe you just had a few bad experieces with OcUK ?

 

[monkeymax]

You think you pay more for hardware in UK compared to US? Come over here, I'm getting all my stuff from OcUK as a friend of mine is helping ship it over, and he's purchased loads of stuff from them with no issues whatsoever, maybe you just had a few bad experieces with OcUK ?

Haha, yeah I know. Used to live in Dubai...

Yeah, I had a few bad experiences with them, as opposed to none with eBuyer, where I've bought more stuff and have had to return a number of things all of which were done easily.

Looks like I may be using OcUK again though...

 

[AxlxA]

monkeymax, i can help you buy stuff from newegg and ship them to you if you prefer?

BTW i get taxed in california for 8.5% of the cost.

Also check if newegg ships international dude.

So $209 x1.085 for tax, then factor in the shipping cost to UK and insure it. That would be how much it cost if you want me to ship it to you.

 

[monkeymax]

Right, well... I am still around. I did seriously consider everything everyone said and thanks for all your comments, but things have gotten a little worse...

First off, thanks for the offer AxlxA but I think it'll probably work out as not being much difference between shipping from the states with taxes etc (gotta pay duty when you bring stuff like that in here) and I don't think that I could get a worldwide warranty with stuff either so I'd probably be screwing myself that way. Better to buy here, but again thanks for the offer. Just a bit miffed at the RAW deal non-Americans seem to get.

Anyway, I decided to get the 6800GS - an XFX 256MB 256bit yadda yadda yadda one. I ordered it a couple of nights ago, but last night managed to get my hands on a friend's AGP graphics card. Plugged it into the computer, and guess what - nothing happened! Same problem.
Basically, I've got an LED readout display on my motherboard (an Epox board) which is to diagnose any problems. That indicated it was a connected peripheral which was the problem or the RAM. I assumed it was the Graphics card (stupid move) simply because that one component has been giving me sooo many problems over the last couple of months, and basically has been dieing slowly. Well, it seems it wasn't that - and it seems the LED readout is actually wrong. I can't work out what's broken so it's either CPU or motherboard. Annoying.

As it's an old Athlon XP CPU and Socket A, it's probably time for replacement anyway but I can't afford it right now, so I'm going to be without a computer for a while... Still, sending an email to Epox to see if my Mobo is still on warranty...
Oh well, cancelled the order for the graphics card.

Thanks again for all the input guys - needless to say I'll be using it when I do eventually replace the parts (new mobo will mean I will probably have to get a new PCI-E Graphcis card too)...

 

[jeffy777]

Don't take my word for granted. I'm not closely following the GPU circus. There could be other options I haven't heard of.

Off topic: I've never heard anyone actually use the phrase "take for granted" in that sense. Every time I hear it, the meaning is: to take lightly, ignore, or to disregard what is being said. I looked it up and it can be used either way. But Swek, you're the first one that I've heard to use it in this manner: congratulations!!

Right, well... I am still around. I did seriously consider everything everyone said and thanks for all your comments, but things have gotten a little worse...

Bummer....sorry to hear that bro....

Atleast this will give you an excuse to upgrade not only your video card, but also your motherboard/cpu. And PCI-E cards are about the same price. Hope you can get a new system up and running soon

 

[AxlxA]

lol jeffy777, that's cruel dude.


As for monkeymax:

I had a similar problem with my p4 2.6ghz.

Here's what happened and What i did:

Computer was left on while i went to watch tv. Came in the room and it was offline. It wouldn't turn on with the power button so i swapped PSU, still no power. I stripped the computer bare down to having only ram, cpu, gfx and still wont boot. I tried a few diff brands of ram and still no go. I RMA'ed the mobo to ASUS and the new mobo turned on, fans ran, but no display on LCD. I swapped it with my two other video cards(AGP) and still nothing came on. No POST beep, doesn't seem like windows is loading. Harddrive spins though. So in the end, i concluded that it was the CPU that died on me since basically every single component in that computer has been changed. Now I am running on a Sempron64 2800+ with a ABIT NV8 mobo.


Here in the states, FRY's Electronics (aka outpost.com) has pretty good deals on budget mobo/cpu. A good past deal was the Semprong 2800+ with a ECS NForce3 mobo for approximately $90 USD. That'd be a good cheap fix for your problem if it's motherboard/cpu's fault. Again I offer to ship that to you. There shouldn't be tax if i claim it as a gift.

 

[swek]

Hm, I meant my previous post with that sentence. I'm not here to establish a new form of bizarro English for everyone to use. I reserve that for myself. :lol:

 

[jeffy777]

lol jeffy777, that's cruel dude.

Cruel? ha, I was trying to help him look on the bright side 8)

Hm, I meant my previous post with that sentence. I'm not here to establish a new form of bizarro English for everyone to use. I reserve that for myself. :lol:

Yes, I knew you were referring to yourself, but it sounded like by saying "don't take my word for granted" you meant "don't take what I'm saying to be 100% accurate". Was I wrong?

 

[swek]

Yes and I still don't get it. Where's the difference between "don't take what I'm saying to be 100% accurate" and "to take sth. lightly" ? Seems about the same to me.

And now get back on topic before I have to lecture you on your crappy German.