Another "recommend me a car" thread - this one is for my brother.

leviathan

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Good news - my brother has passed his driving license test, and is now legally allowed to drive a car. Too bad he doesn't have one. This is something I intend to fix, together with our parents - his 20th birthday is coming up in a couple months, I think it's a fitting occasion.

I've talked to him a couple times about it all, and we've gathered a loose list of desired qualities. It goes something like:

- Compact size sedan or wagon - needs to fit 4-5 people and a bunch of luggage comfortably, and on occasion fit a bicycle (front wheel removed, inside the car).
- Petrol, maybe diesel. Diesel would be cheaper to run fuel-wise which is good for him since he'll be paying for his own fuel; but more expensive to tax and insure, and possibly a future issue with the infamous Dieselfahrverbote in various cities... honestly undecided here.
- Automatic preferred over manual.
- RWD/AWD preferred over FWD.
- Reasonably modern - should be definitely "new" enough to have ESP, so probably 15-ish years old max.
- Ideally less than 100'000km on the clock. Reason to assume it'll be decently reliable.
- Budget: below 10k€.

I haven't done much research so far, but the obvious options appear to be a late E46 or early E90 3-series, or a late W203/early W204 C-class. Both of which seem like decent ideas, but may be a bit pricey to insure (new driver insurance is stupid high), and to maintain/fix when things will inevitably break.

So, FG hivemind, what other options exist here? :)
 
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DanRoM

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You should have kept your NC to pass it on to him. :p

But honestly, RWD means BMW 3 series or Mercedes C Class, as you already said yourself. If FWD is an option and cheapness is important, maybe a Skoda Octavia?
 

D-Fence

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If you want RWD and Wagon, you are only really left with Daimler (C and E Class) and BMW (E91 / E61).
AWD throws Audi and VW into the mix, and the oddballs like Subaru and the Opel Insignia.

The combination of modern, less than 100k km, less than 10k€ and AWD/RWD is deadly.
 

93Flareside

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I envy the amount of cheap wagons...

BMW 318i for €7500

Go all boring and get a diesel FWD Škoda

Or, Subaru Outback.
 

leviathan

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After some Telegram discussion, removed/relaxed the 100'000km requirement. I guess it mainly came from the reliability point of view - but at the target age and price, it seems like a bit of a stretch.

You should have kept your NC to pass it on to him. :p

But honestly, RWD means BMW 3 series or Mercedes C Class, as you already said yourself. If FWD is an option and cheapness is important, maybe a Skoda Octavia?
The NC was actually considered as a pass-on a while back, but discarded for a number of reasons :) An Octavia is certainly worth looking into, although I'm wary of the early-ish DSG boxes aging badly in those.

Or, Subaru Outback.
Now this is why I asked here, that's something I completely didn't think of, and definitely interesting. Although not with close too 200kkm :)
 

Matt2000

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The love for Subaru on FG is as wonderful as it is baffling, I don't see anything in them but they're certainly popular so they must do something right!

Personally I'd look at an A4 or Octavia if I needed something like this, maybe I've lost my imagination. I think a Dacia Duster would be a good buy if the right spec exists.
 

Perc

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@D-Fence mentioned the insignia so here are my €0,02.

I can’t complain about reliability after owning mine from 120k to almost 190k now. It’s been better than I ever imagined an Opel could be. 😂

You shouldn’t go older than 2013 or so if you’re looking for an AWD insignia though. There’s an expensive design flaw in the rear diff, IIRC the gear oil and awd system fluid mix with each other and that’s not good. It’s been fixed on mine, thankfully.

The diesels are reliable but gruff, at least mine is. I don’t know how the more modern Euro6 ones are. I wouldn’t want a petrol one because I imagine the fuel costs would be terrible. It’s not a light car by any stretch of the imagination. My Insignia returns fuel economy similar to my old 1.4 TSI Octavia, and it does that while weighing half a ton more and making about 70 more horsepower.
 

GRtak

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A nice blue one. :drums:
 

Tram

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Crazy idea: how about a first-generation BMW X1 (E84)? Apparently they can be had for less than €10k, they come as either petrol or diesel, automatic versions are dime a dozen, and you can choose between RWD and AWD. Besides, they're essentially lifted E91s.

Now I don't know anything about reliability, durability, or build quality of them, but I have been secretly a fan of them ever since I realised they're essentially lifted E91s. Here's one I found.

Other than that, having set a specific search on mobile.de, the common themes are Scout versions of Škoda Octavia and Superb, Allrad/4Motion Passats, Nissan Qashqai, various quattro Audis and xDrive BMWs, and... VW Phaeton, for some reason. It came up in my search probably most often of all these cars, but then, I can't see that being a reasonable option in any circumstance.

Another idea that's not entirely obvious but that came up in my serach is Volvo XC70, although good luck finding one with a reasonable mileage. Also, I do admit, I set the search for 'Allrad' vehicles, but I'm sure the RWD section (if I could've found it) would've been full of obvious choices such as W204s and E90/E91s.
 

Perc

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Qashqai... I'm sorry but euurgh. :poop:

You don't have to go Scout to get 4x4 in your Skoda. The "normal" ones can have 4x4 as well, you can't tell without looking at the badge on the back. There's likewise a V70 AWD that probably carries less of a price premium than an XC70. At least around here Volvos are bought by people that do tons of kilometers per year so yeah, good luck finding a low-km diesel one.

V50 T5 AWD? Not as reliable as the big Volvos, but probably more fun to drive. It's a Ford Focus underneath after all.
 

Matt2000

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V50 T5 AWD? Not as reliable as the big Volvos, but probably more fun to drive. It's a Ford Focus underneath after all.
I think those still look great in sports trim, can't believe the design is as old as it is.
 

narf

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Now this is why I asked here, that's something I completely didn't think of, and definitely interesting. Although not with close too 200kkm :)
With that particular car, I'd also ask whether a Gasanlage is the right choice. If you anticipate a lot of driving it'll be nice for fuel costs, if you don't then it's a thing that makes the car more expensive to buy and maintain for no big benefit.
 

93Flareside

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Earlier I was posting before work and sort of rushing about not reading the posts fully. Where the hell do you fill up with all these non-petrol/diesel cars anyways? I guess that's why they're so cheap. I saw a nearly brand new Fiat Tipo wagon but it said powered by "benzine." So another liquid fuel but not the usual stuff.

yes yes, RWD/AWD preferred but um, good luck unless you want BMW or Mercedes only... I don't know what yours or your brothers preferences are so I'm going to try and post as little of those brands as possible.

lol, a 2008 Dodge Magnum with a Chrysler nose. :D euro4 though might not be a good idea. first gen chrysler but mature Mercedes platform...

hmm, 2012 2.0L Diesel Subaru Forester. Foresters to me have weirdly too much headroom. It is euro5 so maybe you're still ok?

this could just be any background car in a tv show. 2008 Mercedes C-180, has euro4 :/

Hmm, 2013 Hyundai i40, euro5

2010 BMW 318d. euro5....

euro5 2011 Peugeot 308 wagon but the "urban move" trim, how exclusive. :p

Subaru Forester for the less common aspect, Mercedes and BMW for the servicability in terms of parts and shit available, but also actually meeting the criteria of "RWD" but not much else, Hyundai because the EU office is in Frankfurt so maybe the dealer network is decent around there, the Dodge Magnum for shits and giggles.

You're being way too nice to your brother. If it were me, the most common non-rusty box with decent service history would fit the bill in terms of first car. Something like a Golf wagon or Opel Astra I would think be the way to go I would guess in your area, but neither of those are exactly inspiring. Maybe perhaps erring on the cautious side of "reliable for the non-car guy." Over here I'd be steering someone toward a Toyota Corolla, Camry, or Honda Civic, Accord or maybe a Mercury Grand Marquis for that American barge-ness. Never would I suggest an ex-police Crown Victoria, those things are beat to shit. If they were someone who wanted to have a manual shift car, an old pickup truck, harder to kill the engine so less panic moments when you kill it I think.

I'm checking Autoscout24 and oh my....

2006 Jaguar X-Type wagon for less than 1,000. But it's euro3 so probably a flat no.

Euro5 Renault Megane with adaptive headlights and two sets of wheels.

Euro5 Honda Civic wagon, neat!

euro5 Citroen C5, that steering wheel is button city. This may also be one of the highest HP vehicles in the list.

euro4 Renault Laguna, I guess the only good thing is it has a 1 year warranty and is half your budget, so room for repairs and stuff.

euro5?! Mini Cooper Clubman. higher HP than the Citroen. It's 2.5 door so maybe less than inviting for friends, but they're young so fuck it. :p

euro5, but a nice BMW 520d.

BMW320d, no emission listing but I would assume 4 maybe 5.

I'm quite jelly, seeing affordable cars with LED, Xenon headlights and not friggin' halogens. I think that's enough for now. :D
 
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Matt2000

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Benzine is gasoline.
I can't tell if he was kidding or not, we both definitely stood at Italian petrol pumps together. :p

Also, isn't suggesting a Peugeot to someone punishable by life sentence? :LOL:
 

93Flareside

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I can't tell if he was kidding or not, we both definitely stood at Italian petrol pumps together. :p

Also, isn't suggesting a Peugeot to someone punishable by life sentence? :LOL:
I only have memory of the stupid prepay system those fuel stations had.

Why is benzine listed separately from petrol?
 

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I can't possibly be arsed to quote every link separately in @93Flareside's post, but I have a few €0.02:s:

Anything with a THP155 like in that Citroën C5 is a big NO. It's the engine that BMW fans say is bad because it was made together with the French, while the French car fans claim it's shit because BMW was involved in it. Either way, it's plagued by timing chain issues. I would guess the Cooper in the same post suffers from the same shit engine.

Subaru diesel... hmm. Something something crank split in two? I can't remember. It's Subaru's first and probably last diesel engine.

Some BMW 20d's suffer from timing chain issues as well.
 

93Flareside

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I can't possibly be arsed to quote every link separately in @93Flareside's post, but I have a few €0.02:s:

Anything with a THP155 like in that Citroën C5 is a big NO. It's the engine that BMW fans say is bad because it was made together with the French, while the French car fans claim it's shit because BMW was involved in it. Either way, it's plagued by timing chain issues. I would guess the Cooper in the same post suffers from the same shit engine.

Subaru diesel... hmm. Something something crank split in two? I can't remember. It's Subaru's first and probably last diesel engine.

Some BMW 20d's suffer from timing chain issues as well.

All very goods things to bring up. I'm going by no crash history and mileage.
 
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