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are german cars built to go faster than 155?

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osabros

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
683
Nowadays every german car has to have an electronic 155 mph speed limiter on them.

so my question is: do the engineers build the cars to go over that speed- in term of gear ratios, aerodynamics, and things like that?

or in another way: if you would take a BMW M5 and remove the limiter: would the gears and aerodynamics allow it to reach it's true top speed??
 
the way i see it mercedes and bmw and such are thinking: "this car doesn't have to go faster than 155, so why spend time and resources putting diffusers and high-speed spoilers??"
 
BMW E60 M5/M6 (the new ones) can go 320 - 330 km/h or 200+ mph :banana: as standard without the stupid limiter, and they are geared for it obviosly. In some countries BMW offer to remove the limiter if you have a racing licens. If you don't have that i'm sure it can be done by others than BMW them selves ;) So yes, German cars are very much designed to go above the 155 mph they are limited to. This maybe sound stupid to you, but i think there is a certain flair to knowing that even though the car is limited it would go on to alot more without. But they should all just do like Porsche and screw the limiter aggrement :evil: .
 
^ There's never been an official (signed) agreement. It's more of a gentlemen's agreement and it's slowly disintegrating. E.g. Mercedes is already offering their AMG cars with the limiter raised to 180mph or more, Audi offered the RS6 plus which has the limiter raised to 280kph (~174mph), etc.

Back to your question:
Of course German cars can safely do over 155mph with the limiter removed. The manufacturers don't compromise on that just to save money.
 
^^ BMW is also planning on removing the limiter, or at least set it higher.

In this case rumours say (the boss of the M division ;-) ), it will come at a price... But they are also considering saftey courses for the 300 km/h customers...

Buba
 
Leppy said:
I thought the limiters were placed on the cars to keep the green party happy with emissions n what not...
Click to expand...

That and a discussion about a Europe wide implementation of speed limits on motorways, and back then 250kph was the perfect speed for a self-restriction because hardly any car would've been able to go faster anyway (Except for example the BMW M5 and the top of the range BMW's and Merc's, Porsche never agreed anyway as mentioned above. Audi's V8 only reached 245kph, VW and Opel were struggeling to reach anything above 210-220kph these days)
 
It is extremely easy to take off the limiter on a 250kph German car. All it takes is money.

This agreement is similar to the one in Japan. Over there, manufacturers aren't supposed to build any car over 280ps. This is a strange agreement since you can take a Lancer Evolution off the showroom floor and dyno it at over 300hp. The cars are all advertised as 280ps but in reality they come with more. If you take off the "detune" program in the ECU and increase turbo boost, you can get the power the car was intended to have.
 
Z Draci said:
It is extremely easy to take off the limiter on a 250kph German car. All it takes is money.

This agreement is similar to the one in Japan. Over there, manufacturers aren't supposed to build any car over 280ps. This is a strange agreement since you can take a Lancer Evolution off the showroom floor and dyno it at over 300hp. The cars are all advertised as 280ps but in reality they come with more. If you take off the "detune" program in the ECU and increase turbo boost, you can get the power the car was intended to have.
Click to expand...

The same as with the honda nsx also 280hp, the skyline also has the 280 bhp limit.

As on the german thing It is a gentlemens agreement and as said before more and more manufacturers are getting the limits of their top of the range sportscoupes and saloons.
 
oliB said:
^ There's never been an official (signed) agreement. It's more of a gentlemen's agreement and it's slowly disintegrating. E.g. Mercedes is already offering their AMG cars with the limiter raised to 180mph or more, Audi offered the RS6 plus which has the limiter raised to 280kph (~174mph), etc.

Back to your question:
Of course German cars can safely do over 155mph with the limiter removed. The manufacturers don't compromise on that just to save money.
Click to expand...

Jup, it's kind of an unwritten law. But the manufacturers rather have no limit. Read an article about it a while ago.
 
Re: are german cars built to go faster than 155?

osabros said:
Nowadays every german car has to have an electronic 155 mph speed limiter on them.
Click to expand...

Not all.

My ALPINA B10 V8 (E39) doesn't have one and will do 170+mph (I checked 8) ).

Since I only have 340bhp an unlimited 400bhp M5 should be faster.

You'd be oblidged to run tyres adequate for your new Vmax though...
 
mautzel said:
Leppy said:
I thought the limiters were placed on the cars to keep the green party happy with emissions n what not...
Click to expand...

That and a discussion about a Europe wide implementation of speed limits on motorways, and back then 250kph was the perfect speed for a self-restriction because hardly any car would've been able to go faster anyway (Except for example the BMW M5 and the top of the range BMW's and Merc's, Porsche never agreed anyway as mentioned above. Audi's V8 only reached 245kph, VW and Opel were struggeling to reach anything above 210-220kph these days)
Click to expand...

that's why they asked lotus for little help :evil:
 
Re: are german cars built to go faster than 155?

fluffnik said:
osabros said:
Nowadays every german car has to have an electronic 155 mph speed limiter on them.
Click to expand...

Not all.

My ALPINA B10 V8 (E39) doesn't have one and will do 170+mph (I checked 8) ).

Since I only have 340bhp an unlimited 400bhp M5 should be faster.

You'd be oblidged to run tyres adequate for your new Vmax though...
Click to expand...
the e39 reaches about 184mph with the speed limiter removed and an additional 3 mph can be gained by removing a second limiter that limits the revs in top gear. ;)
 
Don't BMW have 2 limiters? the 155mph one and the 200mph(give or take a couple of mph) one or something? both are legal.. the other one is just because exceeding those speeds will be dangerous for the tires and so. atleast thats what i've heard.
 
BMW doesn't realy have many cars that can reach 200mph
 
logo said:
Don't BMW have 2 limiters? the 155mph one and the 200mph(give or take a couple of mph) one or something? both are legal.. the other one is just because exceeding those speeds will be dangerous for the tires and so. atleast thats what i've heard.
Click to expand...
thats on the new m5, where the limiter can be raised by a bmw dealer from 155 to 190, while you can also get rid of the limiter completely through a third party (voids the warranty however), which will result in a top speed of around 205.
 
Z Draci said:
It is extremely easy to take off the limiter on a 250kph German car. All it takes is money.

This agreement is similar to the one in Japan. Over there, manufacturers aren't supposed to build any car over 280ps. This is a strange agreement since you can take a Lancer Evolution off the showroom floor and dyno it at over 300hp. The cars are all advertised as 280ps but in reality they come with more. If you take off the "detune" program in the ECU and increase turbo boost, you can get the power the car was intended to have.
Click to expand...

Be sure to note that the Gentleman's agreement between the Japanese manufactures is broken. They're no longer abiding by it.

And not all German cars are limited to 155. The new Bug from what I've heard is limited to 105, because at about 110 or so, it starts producing lift...or at least a considerable amount thereof...
 
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