Are low-end business routers/firewalls any good?

Viper007Bond

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Can't you buy your own modem? A friend of mine did just that solved 99% of his connection issues.

Depends. I don't think I can, but I don't have cable or DSL but instead fiber. It does come into the modem as coax though (the few feet between the fiber box in my closet and my modem are coax).

I bought my mom a modem for her Comcast cable connection and it works fine.
 
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prizrak

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Depends. I don't think I can, but I don't have cable or DSL but instead fiber. It does come into the modem as coax though (the few feet between the fiber box in my closet and my modem are coax).

I bought my mom a modem for her Comcast cable connection and it works fine.

You on FiOS then? What you can do if you are having issues with the Craptiontec and don't wanna deal with their hardware is call the and ask to switch connection to UTP aka ethernet* and then use any router you want. Of course that assumes you do not use TV service through them because I think if you do you are basically stuck with their stuff. Presumably any router that has a coax input will work as it really is just normal ethernet connection but using coax** instead of UTP.

*It's actually ethernet either way the type of cabling doesn't matter
**Reason they did it is so that they could plug into the existing coax network in your house since most houses/buildings are wired for cable already
 

Perc

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Depends. I don't think I can, but I don't have cable or DSL but instead fiber. It does come into the modem as coax though (the few feet between the fiber box in my closet and my modem are coax).

So you actually have fiber all the way to the apartment, but your internet takes a detour via (I'm assuming) a bloody cable modem? Instead of just getting proper ethernet straight from the fiber box? What were they smoking when they came up with that?

I have from what the customer's point of view is a normal residential cable connection, but it comes in over a fiber which terminates in the building's cable TV amplifier. Cheaper than running ethernet in an old building I guess. I would much rather have a simple ethernet jack though. Nothing good has ever been associated with the word "modem".
 

prizrak

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So you actually have fiber all the way to the apartment, but your internet takes a detour via (I'm assuming) a bloody cable modem? Instead of just getting proper ethernet straight from the fiber box? What were they smoking when they came up with that?

I have from what the customer's point of view is a normal residential cable connection, but it comes in over a fiber which terminates in the building's cable TV amplifier. Cheaper than running ethernet in an old building I guess. I would much rather have a simple ethernet jack though. Nothing good has ever been associated with the word "modem".
No, assuming his on FiOS, the fiber terminates directly in your apt/building/house (there are some variations) in a box called an ONT (big ass white box that goes on a wall basically an opt to ethernet converter). From there it goes over standard ethernet using either UTP (the normal network cable we all know and love) or coax connection into a router. The router then works as a NAT for your home along with WAP (if you choose to enable it), the ONT also serves your set top boxes if you have TV service with them. There is no "modem" involved here at all unless you want to consider the ONT one.

P.S. Modem stands for modulator-demodulator simply a device that converts signals, it used to do digital to analog now its digital to digital just different transmission types.
 
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Hidden_Hunter

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No, assuming his on FiOS, the fiber terminates directly in your apt/building/house (there are some variations) in a box called an ONT (big ass white box that goes on a wall basically an opt to ethernet converter). From there it goes over standard ethernet using either UTP (the normal network cable we all know and love) or coax connection into a router. The router then works as a NAT for your home along with WAP (if you choose to enable it), the ONT also serves your set top boxes if you have TV service with them. There is no "modem" involved here at all unless you want to consider the ONT one.

P.S. Modem stands for modulator-demodulator simply a device that converts signals, it used to do digital to analog now its digital to digital just different transmission types.

That's what we've got in our block, fibre termination is on an external wall about 1ft from my cable modem (which also supplies cable tv) - the guy said when he installed my connection it he didn't get why they'd done it that way and it was massively over provisioned for a block of 6. 100mpbs service, I get 130mpbs consistent any time.

As for purchasing cable modems, afaik they use certificates on the devices here to prevent you buying non authorised modems (if it's one they've sold in the past that's fine just no randoms)
 

Viper007Bond

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You on FiOS then? What you can do if you are having issues with the Craptiontec and don't wanna deal with their hardware is call the and ask to switch connection to UTP aka ethernet* and then use any router you want. Of course that assumes you do not use TV service through them because I think if you do you are basically stuck with their stuff. Presumably any router that has a coax input will work as it really is just normal ethernet connection but using coax** instead of UTP.

*It's actually ethernet either way the type of cabling doesn't matter
**Reason they did it is so that they could plug into the existing coax network in your house since most houses/buildings are wired for cable already

Correct, I was told my modem/router/whatever talks to my DVR to supply it with the TV schedule and stuff like that.

No, assuming his on FiOS, the fiber terminates directly in your apt/building/house (there are some variations) in a box called an ONT (big ass white box that goes on a wall basically an opt to ethernet converter). From there it goes over standard ethernet using either UTP (the normal network cable we all know and love) or coax connection into a router. The router then works as a NAT for your home along with WAP (if you choose to enable it), the ONT also serves your set top boxes if you have TV service with them. There is no "modem" involved here at all unless you want to consider the ONT one.

P.S. Modem stands for modulator-demodulator simply a device that converts signals, it used to do digital to analog now its digital to digital just different transmission types.

Yep, the fiber runs right into my apartment and then it's a short piece of coax to my Actiontec or whatever router. It was originally Verizon but was bought out by Frontier. I heard about the ethernet option but I have TV and the router works fine in DMZ mode with my own router.
 

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Yep, the fiber runs right into my apartment and then it's a short piece of coax to my Actiontec or whatever router. It was originally Verizon but was bought out by Frontier. I heard about the ethernet option but I have TV and the router works fine in DMZ mode with my own router.

I never had any issues with this router to be honest, I use it for NAT/Firewall/DHCP and the wireless router is used as a simple WAP + wired switch.
 

Viper007Bond

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I never had any issues with this router to be honest, I use it for NAT/Firewall/DHCP and the wireless router is used as a simple WAP + wired switch.

I'm sure it's fine but I want a gigabit LAN and much faster WiFi.
 

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Many consumer routers with gigabit WAN connections can't actually handle that kind of traffic between interfaces, they're not like switches. If they include a gigabit switch you can share files at high speed across your network, but usually the WAN<->LAN component is going to be much slower. They figure most people aren't going to max out their internet connection very often, and if they need more bandwidth they'll get a pro-level device.

If you tend to use a lot of bandwidth, or you have more than a few clients connected, you should look into building your own. PC Engines Alix boards are very solid, high performance computers that you can assemble into a small desktop router for just under $200, and they'll give you flexibility to run whatever software you want, M0n0wall, pfSense, Linux, etc. They're low power, usually <10W, and very reliable.
 

JakeRadden

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Yeah, do that. Get a solid motorola modem and back it with a high quality consumer router. Done.
 

prizrak

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I'm sure it's fine but I want a gigabit LAN and much faster WiFi.

Missed your response lol, you can do that in the same way I did separate router for Wi-Fi and GigE, though in my case I also have a GigE switch.

- - - Updated - - -

Many consumer routers with gigabit WAN connections can't actually handle that kind of traffic between interfaces, they're not like switches. If they include a gigabit switch you can share files at high speed across your network, but usually the WAN<->LAN component is going to be much slower. They figure most people aren't going to max out their internet connection very often, and if they need more bandwidth they'll get a pro-level device.

If you tend to use a lot of bandwidth, or you have more than a few clients connected, you should look into building your own. PC Engines Alix boards are very solid, high performance computers that you can assemble into a small desktop router for just under $200, and they'll give you flexibility to run whatever software you want, M0n0wall, pfSense, Linux, etc. They're low power, usually <10W, and very reliable.

Max you can get from VZ right now is 500/500 so nowhere near what GigE limit is, also VZ will give you a better router if you go that route. Alix is nice I used to have a router built on that but if you really want serious power just use an old desktop with w/e software you want on top.
 

electromage

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Missed your response lol, you can do that in the same way I did separate router for Wi-Fi and GigE, though in my case I also have a GigE switch.

- - - Updated - - -



Max you can get from VZ right now is 500/500 so nowhere near what GigE limit is, also VZ will give you a better router if you go that route. Alix is nice I used to have a router built on that but if you really want serious power just use an old desktop with w/e software you want on top.

Yeah, Alix isn't the most powerful but it's good if you want a fast, super reliable solution with the same size and power requirements as a typical "home router". I'm running pfSense on an Intel D2500CCE (dual-core 1.6G Atom with 2x GigE and 2GB of DDR3) at home.
 

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I ended up buying an Asus RT-AC68U after deciding between that and an Airport Extreme, btw.

Then, after troubleshooting why the :censored: my other computers won't show up on the LAN, it turns out Asus has well known troubles with Multicast DNS which Apple uses for LAN device discovery. Thanks for that, Asus. At least there's a third party firmware that fixes the issue but you'd think a 200 euro router would work out of the box.

I decided against the Extreme because of lack of features (it's a plug-it-in-and-it-works type of thing, zero options to tinker with) but something tells me it would've worked flawlessly without tinkering. The main tinker-y option I wanted was QoS because of my painfully asymmetric 100/5M cable connection.

My favorite feature on the Asus is the button on the back that turns off all the LEDs on it. It's also been reliable once I got Merlin's firmware on it.
 
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Perc

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It's also been reliable once I got Merlin's firmware on it.

Yeah, no. I'll take that back. I'm giving up the RT-AC68U and putting Asus on the list of brands to avoid in the future. Shame, considering it's a very competent router otherwise.

I've been digging in google for a while now and there doesn't seem to be an easy fix for what shouldn't have been broken to begin with. Bonjour/zeroconf relies heavily on Multicast DNS and it can't be that hard to get it right.

Seems to be an ongoing issue with Asus too. Apparently they can't be bothered to fix it.
 

prizrak

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Yeah, no. I'll take that back. I'm giving up the RT-AC68U and putting Asus on the list of brands to avoid in the future. Shame, considering it's a very competent router otherwise.

I've been digging in google for a while now and there doesn't seem to be an easy fix for what shouldn't have been broken to begin with. Bonjour/zeroconf relies heavily on Multicast DNS and it can't be that hard to get it right.

Seems to be an ongoing issue with Asus too. Apparently they can't be bothered to fix it.

I see an Airport in your future
 

Perc

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I see an Airport in your future

Yeah, kicking myself for not buying one in the first place. I decided against it because I wanted QoS for my horribly asymmetric 100M/5M cable connection.

Currently borrowing an Express to try out. Works like a charm, although I would like some more settings to fiddle with. I would have to go with an Extreme though because I want those gig ports and AC.
 
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Adamar

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Has anyone mentioned smallnetbuilder for good reviews of con-, and prosumer routers?

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/

If you got apple hardware, you also better check out their forums, lot of users have already gone through the trouble of finding out what shit doesn't work with apple, and what does.
 
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Perc

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If you got apple hardware, you also better check out their forums, lot of users have already gone through the trouble of finding out what shit doesn't work with apple, and what does.

Thing is, getting network gear to "work with apple" shouldn't be a problem. Everyone else's gear works because it is just basic networking.

This is just Asus being stupid, nothing else.
 
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