Autobahn - Whats the story in 2009

kurthest

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We've all seen Jezza praise the no speedinglimits of the Autobahn, but I've been hearing that they have changed that somewhat.
Can anyone german give a sitrep on how it is today?
Which roads on the Autobahn have no limits?
Is there a map on the Internet showing the roads and their limits/no limits?
 

WirelessMonkey

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From what i know they have a system similar to what is on the M25. A variable speed limit that is designed to ease congestion (and works very well).
 

kurthest

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Holy crap, so basically there's no reason to go to Germany any more?

What's the deal with the variable speed/traffic control system ? How does it work?
 

Ford Prefect

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wow, according to that map the vast majority of the highways that people actually use are still unlimited :mrgreen:

so what do all the other colors mean? I just had a rough look at it, and there are quite a lot of non-blue parts that are unlimited either all the time, most of the time, or only at night...
 
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spicysaurus

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I don't mean to be a boob, but shouldn't this be in one of the other forums? It's not exactly TG-related.
 

DanRoM

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Nice map you found there, Suedschleife. :) autobahnatlas-online.de is indeed very informative. And here's the map legend for that map. It's in German, but I'm sure you can all read colours and numbers. ;)

I had no idea there's still so much of unlimited autobahn around.
 

Soup?

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Buba

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Nice map, Dude... I love how they are still fighting oevr where to put the Autobahn going from my parents place to Munich





Its where the red dot is. The gray part of the Autobahn is mostly unlimited, especially fine is the piece I marked in the red box. Its barley used and fucking straight... Oh the fun times...
 

Ford Prefect

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I had no idea there's still so much of unlimited autobahn around.
I keep telling people, the major highways that actually connect cities to each other are still pretty good. I just didn?t realize they were this good...

And the best part is if you correct all the little mistakes and parts without any data, then you can paint pretty much all the highways in bavaria blue. With the main exception being the city highways. :mrgreen:
 

MacGuffin

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So the answer to the OP in short is:

No, they haven't changed anything, there are just local speed limits, the long stretches of Autobahn connecting cities are mostly unlimited.

Despite all efforts of the Green Party and the eco-mentalists I dare saying, that there will never be a general speed limit on the German Autobahns. They simply cannot discuss away the fact that despite of no speed limit, the average speed on the Autobahns is about 120 km/h anyway.
 
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Dr_Grip

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What spoils the party a little is that since 1978 there's a thing called "Richtgeschwindigkeit" (roughly translates as "recommanded speed") which is 130. That means that you're not supposed to go faster, eventhough it's not forbidden. That means that if you have an accident going faster than 130 they (Autobahn police) can put part of the blame on you, even if speed was not the cause of the accident, as the higher speed means a higher operational hazard. If you are at fault, your insurance can fuck you over, and as insurance companys love to do that, go figure...
 

MacGuffin

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It's not that easy. You have to drive reckless, too.

And Richtgeschwindigkeit or not: When you go 200 km/h and someone who does only a 100 km/h pulls out 50 meters in front you, HE is the one who gets all of the blame -- if he survives it.

Besides, there are hardly accidents at higher speeds on the Autobahn. I saw a few crashes in my life and almost none of them indicated excessive speeds.

Only recently there was one such accident here: I came to pass it, before the car was salvaged and the police and an ambulance were still there. It looked like he first hit the rail on the left, then 100 meter further the rail on the right, then the rail on the left again and finally broke through the rail on the right, falling into the ditch below. The rear end of the car still stuck up in the air.

That's about the only crash which indicated a high speed at the time of the accident I ever encountered in 25 years.
 
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Dr_Grip

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It's not that easy. You have to drive reckless, too.

And Richtgeschwindigkeit or not: When you go 200 km/h and someone who does only a 100 km/h pulls out 50 meters in front you, HE is the one who gets all of the blame -- if he survives it.

That's exactely the problem: As long as you go 130, you're right.
If you're faster, you have to prove that the accident would have been unavoidable even at 130. (see: http://www.verkehrslexikon.de/Module/BetriebsGefahr.htm , http://www.verkehrslexikon.de/Texte/RichtGeschwindigkeit3.htm (in german))
Of course, the person pulling out would still get most of the blame in this case, but even if they determine you're only 5% at fault that might translate to thousands of Euros if your car is totalled.

As you're right and the amount of highspeed-related accidents is quite small anyways, i think this system is a good idea: Instead of imposing limits on how fast you are allowed to drive it sets a (reasonable) speed recommendation but allows you to go faster on your own risk.

The only two speed-related crashes i ever witnessed were: A Merc coup? pracitcally atomizing a slower vehicle (did only see the aftermath, was in the 4th row of vehicles in the resulting congestion), as i read up later, everyone died.

The other crash i witnessed directely: A Audi driver overestimated the power of his AWD, doing maybe 120 in aquaplaning conditions, spinning out of control, into the middle barrier, across all three lanes and into the green beside the Autobahn. This story once again illustrated that it's not about absolute limits but about appropriate speeds for the current situation.
 
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MacGuffin

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The other crash i witnessed directely: A Audi driver overestimated the power of his AWD, doing maybe 120 in aquaplaning conditions, spinning out of control, into the middle barrier, across all three lanes and into the green beside the Autobahn. This story once again illustrated that it's not about absolute limits but about appropriate speeds for the current situation.

Must have had almost completely used up tires mounted. Either that or he lost control by other means.

I drove an A6 quattro last Winter (with snow tires) and believe me: At 120 there is no aquaplaning - in fact, I was even able to overtake others by driving through the slush with about 140 km/h. The car was like on rails.

I also once owned an Audi 200 turbo Quattro and all I had to do, was activating all differential locks and aquaplaning simply didn't exist anymore. And it didn't even have ESP.
 
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Dr_Grip

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Must have had almost completely used up tires mounted. Either that or he lost control by other means.

I drove an A6 quattro last Winter (with snow tires) and believe me: At 120 there is no aquaplaning - in fact, I was even able to overtake others by driving through the slush with about 140 km/h. The car was like on rails.

I also once owned an Audi 200 turbo Quattro and all I had to do, was activating all differential locks and aquaplaning simply didn't exist anymore. And it didn't even have ESP.

I have no idea. Water was running down the tarmac at least a finger deep - don't know where the point is at which the choice of tires does not matter cause you simply get too much water beneath them.
It was raining so hard that i did around 60 or 70 due to lack of visibility (had a company car easily being able to do 200+ back in the day, but still...), did not even think about grip before the Audi passed and seconds later the guy in front of me hits the brakes hard and the Audi, already spinnig, re-appears through the rain....
 
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nouseferaname90

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I've feel solid grip on tarmac at around 60-70 mph in the rain (when I had new tires). Depends on the car really. Can't go above 60 mph in my mom's car because the front tends to lift up for some reason.
 

MacGuffin

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I have no idea. Water was running down the tarmac at least a finger deep - don't know where the point is at which the choice of tires does not matter cause you simply get too much water beneath them.

Ok, in that case common sense should take over. I was talking about "normal" rain.

When it rains so much, that I cannot see anymore, I reduce my speed for that reason alone. Anyone who doesn't, is on a suicide mission.
 
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