Autocar: US faces 74mpg eco target

Mr. Nice

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
2,547
US faces 74mpg eco target

24511114276970234x155.jpg


US President Barack Obama is being pressured by environmental groups to enact tough new Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) figures that would require new cars to return 74mpg by 2025.

Influential US groups, including the California Air Resources Board, want to see the 74mpg target proposal as law by next year.

The ruling could have a big impact on European premium car makers, who would have to hit the 74mpg as an average across their entire ranges. If the economy target becomes law, virtually every car bigger than a Golf would be a plug-in hybrid or use a range-extender electric drivetrain.

The US government has to propose new CAFE legislation this September for the period between 2017 and 2025. The less onerous proposal on the table would mean improvements in corporate fuel economy of just three per cent per year over the seven-year period, leading to a 56mpg average.

Some automotive industry experts suggest the 74mpg target would force up the average cost of a car by between $6500 (?4000) and $10,000 (?6200) in today?s money.

As a result, the US-based Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers has claimed that a hike in new car prices would lead to as much as a 25 per cent slump in sales and huge job losses.

Hilton Holloway

Full Article

:puke:
 

Eunos_Cosmo

Forum Addict
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,968
Location
Oakland
Car(s)
'84 Mazda RX7, '12 Mazda 2, '99 Porsche Boxster
If this goes through...good bye performance cars.
 

JipJopJones

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,478
Location
North Shore
Car(s)
1979 Cressida Wagon, 1981 Corolla Hardtop
Fuck that shit.











That is all.
 

Labcoatguy

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
14,079
Location
New England region, USA
Car(s)
#Jaguar #XKR #XJR, #Saab #9-3 #9-5
So the followup question here is what loopholes will be present, how big are they, and how electric are they? I can see fleet-wide greenwashing with Volt-like technology tacked on and some sort of "electric equivalent" mileage that's just high enough to meet this arbitrary standard. In the end, nobody wins from this stupid legislation. Luckily for us, at this point it's just the worst-case scenario for a crossroads that we haven't arrived at yet.
 

MattD1zzl3

2 Slow 2 Noisy
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
3,736
Location
Miamishire
Car(s)
1996 & 2003 Mazda Miatas, 1995 Chevy Camaro Z28
If this goes through...good bye performance cars.

I like to think that smart guys will find a way to put out electric-aided engines in cars. I'd be happy with a 150HP 0.8L engine powering electric motors on hypothetical future batteries that last longer and are lighter.
 

TC

aka TomCat
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
11,433
I like to think that smart guys will find a way to put out electric-aided engines in cars. I'd be happy with a 150HP 0.8L engine powering electric motors on hypothetical future batteries that last longer and are lighter.

Or use cylinder deactivation. The new 9L Viper only runs on 2 cylinders, unless you turn on the sport button. :p
 

RoamingGnome

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
655
Location
Somewhere NE
Car(s)
2013 Taurus Ltd
I drive a 5500 lb V8 Jeep which gets 12mpg if I baby it, 2 when floored, so I've no sympathy for eco-nazis and government mandated anything. But:

1). I'm a bit tired of the shit efficiency of the I/C engines these days. I see nothing wrong with 50,70,100 mpg, why the fuck not? Financially my 12mpg does not break my bank but I am a bit tired stopping at a gas station every 250 miles and spewing tons of toxic shit outta my tailpipe.

2). What they'd mandate is an average, meaning some cars will get 100 some 40. And 40 is not out of reach these days even for what all consider a performance engine.

3). Doubled efficiency may or may not lead to higher car prices, mpg improves year over year and somehow people still keep buying cars. What is a bit baffling though is what do they propose doing about lost gas tax revenue, which may be dramatic. I'd love to have a good car which would get 80mpg but I fear to fill up or drive equivalent distance, it would now must cost me twice as much. Fuel is taxed even higher in Yoorop so they'd have a conniption.

This is not the answer. Coming up with a new way to make fuel is.

4). I think this would definitely be a part of it. It would more than likely come down to a 74mpg equivalent, meaning if you have a hybrid, EV or hydrogen (or whatever comes out a winner in 10 years), they'd convert that to comparable gasoline usage. Just as they do now.

If this goes through...good bye performance cars.

5). Why, exactly? They don't propose limiting the HP or the engine size, rather how efficient it must be. It may be time manufacturers went back to the drawing board.

As a result, the US-based Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers has claimed that a hike in new car prices would lead to as much as a 25 per cent slump in sales and huge job losses.

Jesus H. Christ, this is such a load of bullshit, everything always leads to huge job losses (and of course the US corporate world is so concerned about employees' welfare; tis why they move everything abroad, to support the poor nations of course). Why 25%? Why not 50% as long as we're throwing arbitrary numbers around. Doom and gloom, Armageddon, hide yo wife. How's about we (re)start innovating, designing, make things better instead of making everything half-ass, cheap and disposable. Higher price is nothing bad, as long as it is justified. They can build sophisticated fighter jets, space rockets, computers, clone people but can't make a 500HP engine that gets 60mpg? The fuck they can't, they just don't feel like it cause it may require some pro active thinking.
 
Last edited:

pepitko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
1,913
Location
Prague, CZ
Car(s)
Audi A5, Ducati M796
How is the average calculated? Is that just an average of all cars (and all their versions) currently sold by a single manufacturer? What about the likes of Lamborghini and Ferrari then? This doesn't make sense, because sports car makers would have to be granted exceptions, otherwise I imagine they could resort to suing the US government for ruining their business.
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,969
Location
HEL
Car(s)
79 Opel Kadett|72 Ford Country Sedan|92 Volvo 945
How is the average calculated? Is that just an average of all cars (and all their versions) currently sold by a single manufacturer? What about the likes of Lamborghini and Ferrari then? This doesn't make sense, because sports car makers would have to be granted exceptions, otherwise I imagine they could resort to suing the US government for ruining their business.

Lamborghini and Ferrari won't have a problem as they are part of FIAT and VAG, respectively and these averages are calculated per company, not per badge. Aston Martin already reacted by introducing the joke that's the Cygnet. I guess there will be exemptions for ultra-low-volume carmakers, though.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,342
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
There are a rather big percentage of pickups/vans that have company logos on them. Are they actually thinking that they can make 74 mpg work trucks? Are people supposed to be hauling industrial equipment in a polo?
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,969
Location
HEL
Car(s)
79 Opel Kadett|72 Ford Country Sedan|92 Volvo 945
There are a rather big percentage of pickups/vans that have company logos on them. Are they actually thinking that they can make 74 mpg work trucks? Are people supposed to be hauling industrial equipment in a polo?

Even I as a non-american know that CAFE applies to cars, not trucks. Or, more exactely, there are different sets of CAFE rules for cars, light trucks and heave trucks. But why think or google if one can just hate?

EDIT: That's the nice thing about Spectre: He at least has his facts straight when going into full-blown hate mode against "them". ;)
 
Last edited:

Mr. Nice

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
2,547
In all reality, with the current Republican Congress there is little likelihood of this actually happening. It is a really bad idea, though.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,342
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
Even I as a non-american know that CAFE applies to cars, not trucks. Or, more exactely, there are different sets of CAFE rules for cars, light trucks and heave trucks. But why think or google if one can just hate?

EDIT: That's the nice thing about Spectre: He at least has his facts straight when going into full-blown hate mode against "them". ;)

Asking a question = hate rampage argument now?
What do you have against me lately?
 

pepitko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
1,913
Location
Prague, CZ
Car(s)
Audi A5, Ducati M796
Lamborghini and Ferrari won't have a problem as they are part of FIAT and VAG, respectively and these averages are calculated per company, not per badge. Aston Martin already reacted by introducing the joke that's the Cygnet. I guess there will be exemptions for ultra-low-volume carmakers, though.

That's a good point.

Although I'm still curious what will be the actual average MPG calculation. Whether it will be the average across the range offered, or if it will be an weighted average of the cars sold. If it's across the range Aston Martin would have to have a different Cygnet type model for each model of DB9/V8 Vantage. If it will be a weighted average of cars sold, they need to sell a Cygnet for every sports car sold (roughly).

The maths of averages screws things up here. If Aston wants to sell a DB9 that does 24 MPG, it needs to sell a Cygnet that has to do at least 124 MPG for the average to come to 74.
 
Top