Awesome Thread

I know you are one of the FG arguement kings, and a German. But isn't fantasy fiction? lol

Yes but there is science-fiction and there is fantasy. Two related but also rather different genres.

In general I go with Philip K. Dick's definition of what is science-fiction. He said that science-fiction means, that under the right circumstances and with the right technology, the story told could be possbile or at least thinkable.

Science-Fiction is set in the real world and in most cases a future, where it is used to discuss or allegorise our present.

Fantasy contains elements, that even under the best circumstances and even under the best conditions are impossible -- for example magic or magical beings.

Star Wars is a genre-mixture at best but in my eyes contains more fantasy elements, than science-fiction.
 
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Fantasy contains elements, that even under the best circumstances and even under the best conditions are impossible -- for example magic or magical beings.

AKA, The Force, to be specific to this discussion.
 
I see how they could overlap each other though, I just hope nobody's calling it a drama.
 
Star Wars is not sci-fi anyway but fantasy in space :p

Star Wars is a mixture of many things but most of all it's a space opera. in the same way Babylon 5 is. it borrows from many elements to create a big over-arching plot that is built around many things.
But Star Wars at its core, is sci-fi at heart. if it was fantasy at heart it would be more Lord of the Rings than anything else.
 
Well, it's easier to find a pure fantasy story, than a pure sci-fi story. The character of "Q" in Star Trek for example, is clearly not a sci-fi character but a magical fantasy being. At least at first. Later on they created the "Q continuum" to give it a scientific touch.

Babylon 5, however, is mostly pure science-fiction to me. Because even though there seem to be magical or at least religious elements at first, they all later get a rational and logical explanation (if you accept time travel as a scientific concept, that is). The creator of B5, J. Michael Straczynski, is an atheist but he likes to elaborate on religion and belief. So in the end there are many things the characters inside the plot consider "magic" or "acts of God" but the viewer knows better, because it all has a rational explanation.
 
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Half a dozen of one and 6 of the other.
 
I still don't get what that guy was looking at :|
 
Babylon 5, however, is pure science-fiction to me. Because even though there seem to be magical or at least religious elements at first, they all later get a rational and logical explanation (if you accept time travel as a scientific concept, that is). The creator of B5, J. Michael Straczynski, is an atheist but he likes to elaborate on religion and belief. So in the end there are many things the characters inside the plot consider "magic" or "acts of God" but the viewer knows better, because it all has a rational explanation.

Babylon 5 always stood out for me for one scene in particular during the first season. I knew of JMS being a atheist and there was a scene where Commander Sinclair introduced the 'dominant religous belief' on Earth only to go on show how the Earth is made up of many. I was always impressed that while JMS was a atheist he didn't really peddle his beliefs on to the audience.

I still don't get what that guy was looking at :|

The guy is blind, he's listening to the roar of the engines or at least that was my understanding of it.
 
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Babylon 5 always stood out for me for one scene in particular during the first season.
Yeah, the "dominant belief system" thing. It's one of the strongest moments of the entire series in the sense that it articulates the central message of B5 in one single scene and without much dialogue or action.
And the irony is that when you first watch it, you spend most of the episode thinking about what the hell will Sinclair show off as Earth's dominant religion... and then it hits you, of course he will show all and none, because diversity is what makes humanity strong, as the series keeps telling us.

.... I have to start a rewatch again, the last one wasn't even this year!
 
.... I have to start a rewatch again, the last one wasn't even this year!

It's become a ritual for me to watch the series once a year. I'm in my 12th run now :)
 
Yeah, the "dominant belief system" thing. It's one of the strongest moments of the entire series in the sense that it articulates the central message of B5 in one single scene and without much dialogue or action.
And the irony is that when you first watch it, you spend most of the episode thinking about what the hell will Sinclair show off as Earth's dominant religion... and then it hits you, of course he will show all and none, because diversity is what makes humanity strong, as the series keeps telling us.

.... I have to start a rewatch again, the last one wasn't even this year!

i've started a re-watch in the last few days. kicking off with the tv movie "in the beginning" then on to "the gathering" and then the first season episode "midnight on the firing line" watching the series again is always fun because to me it was the first series i watched where it really felt like i was seeing character development and story progression in a tv series. most tv shows of that time were stand alone stories where plots were resolved by the end of the episode and characters were always the same. along comes Babylon 5 and its a show where they aren't concerned with killing off popular characters (or bringing them back from the dead. a problem Stargate SG-1 had on multiple occasions).
watching a episode of babylon 5 is like watching a onion slowly shed its layers and revealing slightly more. even more impressive is that JMS kept it to its 5 year timeframe. if the story had been produced now it would have been most likely spread out over multiple seasons and numerous storylines expanded beyond limits of belief. unfortunately it is a shame that Crusade got canned. i did like the concept of the show and would really be interested in reading what JMS had planned for that 5 year time frame. i would really like them to release it either as a series of books or comic books.
that and the series intros. those were incredibly good.
Season 1: Signs and Portents
Season 2: The Coming of Shadows
Season 3: The Point of No Return
Season 4: No Surrender, No Retreat
Season 5: Wheel of Fire
 
unfortunately it is a shame that Crusade got canned. i did like the concept of the show and would really be interested in reading what JMS had planned for that 5 year time frame.

Well, there are hints and also some statements by JMS in the audio commentary of the DVD release. And there were at least 2 more scripts finished, before they pulled the plug (both were/are available on the internet for reading, one dealing with Bester's fate ;) ).

Apparently the plan was to get over with the shadow plague plot as quickly as possible and start the real plot, which involved a conspiracy within the Earth Force and parts of earth government to make shadow technology available for Earth, including experiments on humans, thus undermining the authority of the Interstellar Alliance and the Rangers. Excalibur discovers the conspiracy (hints are already planted in some Crusade episodes) but is framed and has to go into exile. Remember the ship that destroyed Gideons cruiser, leaving him abandoned in space? That was supposed to be an Earth Force experimental ship with shadow technology gone crazy.

At least that's what I gathered. I agree it's a shame they didn't get to continue the series. I very much loved the characters, especially Gideon and Galen. JMS has a hand in such things. And who else dares introducing alien porn into a sci-fi series? :lol:
 
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Well, there are hints and also some statements by JMS in the audio commentary of the DVD release. And there were at least 2 more scripts finished, before they pulled the plug (both were/are available on the internet for reading, one dealing with Bester's fate ;) ).

Apparently the plan was to get over with the shadow plague plot as quickly as possible and start the real plot, which involved a conspiracy within the Earth Force and parts of earth government to make shadow technology available for Earth, including experiments on humans, thus undermining the authority of the Interstellar Alliance and the Rangers. Excalibur discovers the conspiracy (hints are already planted in some Crusade episodes) but is framed and has to go into exile. Remember the ship that destroyed Gideons cruiser, leaving him abandoned in space? That was supposed to be an Earth Force experimental ship with shadow technology gone crazy.

At least that's what I gathered. I agree it's a shame they didn't get to continue the series. I very much loved the characters, especially Gideon and Galen. JMS has a hand in such things.

I had read about the stuff that had been planned about Season 1 of Crusade (such as the series finale ending with a assassination attempt on Gideon). I am surprised at how they would have done with the shadow plague so quickly. however this is classic JMS. he makes you think of one thing that you don't see the seeds being planted for the true bigger picture until the curtains get pulled back.
 
I started watching it recently too. Got s05e07 open right now! (I've never seen past season 4 before I realised)
 
I am surprised at how they would have done with the shadow plague so quickly.

Well, with parts of Earth Force having a hand on shadow technology, there would have been an obvious way. Some "secret source" they get the cure from and then find out more about the source... something like that.

I started watching it recently too. Got s05e07 open right now! (I've never seen past season 4 before I realised)

Season 5 starts out a bit weak, since they thought they only had 4 seasons and squeezed as much as possible into season 4. When they got the "go" for Season 5, they went into idle a bit plotwise and introduced the telepath colony sub plot, before accelerating again.

Most fans hate Byron ;)
 
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Season 5 starts out a bit weak, since they thought they only had 4 seasons and squeezed as much as possible into season 4. When they got the "go" for Season 5, they went into idle a bit plotwise and introduced the telepath colony sub plot, before accelerating again.

Most fans hate Byron ;)

I never really had a problem with Byron. In fact i didn't mind Season 5 at all. i was happy with the plot progression although it did start picking up again from "The Ragged Edge". I was so happy when they got their fifth series. "Sleeping in Light" was a great way to finish the series and the plot ends were all neatly tied up. i did kind of hope that we would get around to the Telepath War (especially since it involved the deaths of Lyta and Lennier) and the beginnings were plotted in the fifth series. Last i recall, the B5 movie "Memory's of Shadows" would have gone into the Shadow War and would have probably been a great way to bridge the timegap between Babylon 5 and Crusade.
 
Well, with 2 of the main actors dead and the others having aged a lot by now, it'll be hard to pick the series up again. I don't want to rule out any spin-offs for the future but currently I think the TV stations are not too keen on space sagas. They axed Stargate Universe right when it started to become interesting. I hate short-term thinking in TV stations.
 
Well, with 2 of the main actors dead and the others having aged a lot by now, it'll be hard to pick the series up again. I don't want to rule out any spin-offs for the future but currently I think the TV stations are not too keen on space sagas. They axed Stargate Universe right when it started to become interesting. I hate short-term thinking in TV stations.

Losing Andreas Katsulas was the biggest loss to the series. Richard Biggs was great as Stephen Franklin but G'kar was such a great character. Even a new Babylon 5 series wouldn't be the same without him.
 
I just got to the episode with Penn & Teller. I love Penn & Teller, but I fear this is going to be a huge let down...
 
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