Bachmann: Let's get rid of the Department of Education

rickhamilton620

has a fetish for terrible cars
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
16,704
Location
Yoe, PA
Car(s)
2012 Kia Forte EX
No. In my schools at least, they usually choose remolding or new computers (for the teachers who used them to play on during class).
I could justify a remodel if the school's crowded or items are in need of repair but your right remodels happen way too often. Hell even my uni is guilty of this, redoing a new student union building, that in all honesty....doesn't need redone at all. It is perfectly serviceable as is but they want to attract more lucrative out of staters. (We have a not so surprising number of people from Maryland, but also some eyebrow raisers like folks from Ohio, NJ and NY) Still a waste of money.

As for computer purchasing...its a double edged sword...buy computers that are more expensive yet can last longer and people would bitch after hearing "blah blah school district spent 1,200 dollars on each Dell..." yet if they buy disposable el cheapo machines and replace em more often, people bitch more.

I think that they should augment computer purchases with hardware upgrades in between, like more RAM, etc.
 

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
17,984
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
I could justify a remodel if the school's crowded or items are in need of repair but your right remodels happen way too often. Hell even my uni is guilty of this, redoing a new student union building, that in all honesty....doesn't need redone at all. It is perfectly serviceable as is but they want to attract more lucrative out of staters. (We have a not so surprising number of people from Maryland, but also some eyebrow raisers like folks from Ohio, NJ and NY) Still a waste of money.

As for computer purchasing...its a double edged sword...buy computers that are more expensive yet can last longer and people would bitch after hearing "blah blah school district spent 1,200 dollars on each Dell..." yet if they buy disposable el cheapo machines and replace em more often, people bitch more.

I think that they should augment computer purchases with hardware upgrades in between, like more RAM, etc.
Universities have a shit ton of cash so it isn't so bad for them to remodel.

It isn't worth the time to gradually upgrade computers for the most part. I can swap in new computers much more quickly than I can upgrade them. It may not seem like a big deal until you realize you have hundreds of machines to manage.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,208
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
I am talking about a high school, not a university. By "remodel" I mean painting the all the doors different neon colors and shit like that. Not like replacing the bleachers which once gave me a inch long splinter. I still have a scar. :|
And the computers are worse than you think, yes they were in fact top of the line dells with nice monitors, and they also were all on carts and included a big ass tv. The point of this was that the TVs were set up as second monitors so they could use them instead of overhead projectors and show internet things, but they were rarely used for that and instead the teachers just used them for online games and email while class was in session.
 

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
17,984
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
Who spends $1,200 on a desktop computer anymore? You can get a new Dell desktop and monitor for $700 that's perfectly reasonable for a student, and that's at individual list price.
At my school we buy mainly refurbished Dells. $400 for a complete desktop + monitor bundle with 5 years of support (parts break they send replacements no questions asked).
 

Okaen

Active Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
358
Location
Denver, CO, USA
Car(s)
1995 Honda Accord
I am talking about a high school, not a university. By "remodel" I mean painting the all the doors different neon colors and shit like that. Not like replacing the bleachers which once gave me a inch long splinter. I still have a scar. :|
And the computers are worse than you think, yes they were in fact top of the line dells with nice monitors, and they also were all on carts and included a big ass tv. The point of this was that the TVs were set up as second monitors so they could use them instead of overhead projectors and show internet things, but they were rarely used for that and instead the teachers just used them for online games and email while class was in session.
I know it is easy to make comments like this. But it simply isn't this black and white. A lot of times grants are given to upgrade computers or they are donated. If Dell donates computers into a classroom, they are advertising to these students. Sometimes there are different budgets for technology or levy money that must be spent in a certain area. I also don't understand why you have so much hate for teachers. They work very hard, working 50+ hours a week, sometimes even more then that.
Now it isn't uncommon for primary teachers to have 30 or more kids in their classroom. Perhaps in secondary that isn't the worst thing, but primary aged students need more individualized attention.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,208
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
My mother watches every school board and town meeting on tv. My particular town is horrible with school financing. Most of the money allotted to them is spent on superfluous crap and teacher's salary instead of anything actual useful I hate them because I went to those schools. Every teacher that was any good and gave a shit has died or retired, since then despite being given the majority of the towns budget (a much larger one than most nearby towns) the amount of kids who graduate and actually get into any college is something like 60% now and the standardized test scores are going down at a nice steady rate. We are significantly worse than many of the schools that have barely any money and the more money that is thrown at them the higher the failure rates get. I am sure plenty of teachers are hard working and underpaid, not the ones in my town. Constantly they whine for more raises and lay off any new teachers that try to get into the schools to raise the existing teacher's pay. They are greedy, the children are suffering for it, and it makes me sick.
 

nomix

True Viking
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
7,293
Location
Norway
Car(s)
Tend do walk the 40 meters from my bed to lecture.
Who spends $1,200 on a desktop computer anymore? You can get a new Dell desktop and monitor for $700 that's perfectly reasonable for a student, and that's at individual list price.
My school spend upwards of $4000 on Macs. Then again, we do relatively serious 3D modelling and video editing. Software probably adds another $1000-2000 per unit.

But if your needs are text editing (or even normal photoshop use), you get away with bloody cheap PCs. Tbh, I'd bet a large chunk of those $1200 is probably software and service plans, though.
 

captain_70s

Forum Addict
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
6,202
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
Car(s)
'77 Triumph Dolomite 1300 + '83 Triumph Acclaim
The last school I went to had a Commodore 64, a BBC Micro and a PC running Windows 3.1. This was in 2001. :|
The glory of countryside primary schools! :lol:

Apparently UK kids are getting better and better at their school exams, mostly because they are being watered down/simplified and as a result are now effectively worth less to college/employers.

Okaen said:
I also don't understand why you have so much hate for teachers. They work very hard, working 50+ hours a week, sometimes even more then that.
Because some people aren't cut out to teach but still do. One of our college tutors was like this, he knew the subjects inside out and could fix computers with ease, but he couldn't teach. My dad is a similar way, if somebody doesn't understand something he does he gets irritated and can't simplify his knowledge to a level where it makes sense to a novice. I remember having teachers like that as well who knew their stuff but couldn't put it across to other people in an efficient manner.
 

Steve Levin

Master of Disaster
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
1,482
Location
Sunnyvale, California
Car(s)
Spec Racer Ford!
Given that every single state has a Department of Education, does anyone have a reason we need a Federal one as well?

I mean, I understand the liberal establishment's desperation to make everyone appear as big as failure as their policies have been, but really, it's getting boring.

Steve
 

nomix

True Viking
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
7,293
Location
Norway
Car(s)
Tend do walk the 40 meters from my bed to lecture.
It's always nice to have some standards. So you know a B in Nebraska is the same as a B in Florida, so you can actually get into colleges outside your state without them having to consider wether or not your B is a C or a B.
 

MacGuffin

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
8,274
Location
Wilhelmshaven, Germany
Car(s)
'17 Ford Mustang GT Fastback
We look back at roughly 6000 years of human history, with no real progress for 5800 years. And suddenly in the last 200 years we have made such a huge leap forward. How is that possible?

Standardization.

Standardization is the foundation of our modern world. Without it the industrial revolution wouldn't have been possible. And without it we wouldn't get new generations of scientists and engineers to keep us going forward.

The progress we assume will happen in the future, will only be possible, when people all over the world recieve the same kind of education. Education of its people is the highest priority of a modern state and therefore control over it must be kept. Standards must be set and maintained. It's the only way to use the combined intelligence of mankind.

Otherwise the decline, even the degenertion of a society will be the inevitable result.
 
Last edited:

Dogbert

Helsinki Smash Rod
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
6,458
Location
N38? 43', W90? 22'
Car(s)
Roger Dean's Rocks
I mean, I understand the liberal establishment's desperation to make everyone appear as big as failure as their policies have been, but really, it's getting boring.
I also understand the conservative establishment's desperation to justify the US as the best at everything in the entire world and base it's policies and rationale on that notion, but that gets us where we are right now: arrogant and relatively uninformed.
 

argatoga

Can't Start His Wank
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
17,984
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'13 Moto Guzzi V7, '08 Pontiac Solstice GXP
We look back at roughly 6000 years of human history, with no real progress for 5800 years. And suddenly in the last 200 years we have made such a huge leap forward. How is that possible?

Standardization.

Standardization is the foundation of our modern world. Without it the industrial revolution wouldn't have been possible. And without it we wouldn't get new generations of scientists and engineers to keep us going forward.

The progress we assume will happen in the future, will only be possible, when people all over the world recieve the same kind of education. Education of its people is the highest priority of a modern state and therefore control over it must be kept. Standards must be set and maintained. It's the only way to use the combined intelligence of mankind.

Otherwise the decline, even the degenertion of a society will be the inevitable result.
What? Standardization has existed many times before. The Ur III Dynasty of Mesopotamia had standardized units thousands of years before the Roman Empire.

The reason the industrial revolution did not happen earlier was due to the ancient mindset that things were as they have always been and there is no reason to advance. Hero of Alexandria invented the steam engine in Classical Roman times but they did little more than use it for cheap amusements.

It would take non Islamic Europe* until after the Medieval Ages until it changed it mindset.

*The Islamic world was ahead of the Western world for quite some time.
 
Last edited:

Cold Fussion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
4,444
Location
A small island off the coast of New Zealand
Car(s)
1988 Ford Laser Ghia
What? Standardization has existed many times before. The Ur III Dynasty of Mesopotamia had standardized units thousands of years before the Roman Empire.

The reason the industrial revolution did not happen earlier was due to the ancient mindset that things were as they have always been and there is no reason to advance. Hero of Alexandria invented the steam engine in Classical Roman times but they did little more than use it for cheap amusements.

It would take non Islamic Europe* until after the Medieval Ages until it changed it mindset.

*The Islamic world was ahead of the Western world for quite some time.
Ancient cultures had technology that is reminiscent of the industrial revolution, but they had no understanding of the underlying physics behind it, and that is crucial difference between Ancient societies and modern ones.
 

WillDAQ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
2,725
Location
Ukania
Ancient cultures had technology that is reminiscent of the industrial revolution, but they had no understanding of the underlying physics behind it, and that is crucial difference between Ancient societies and modern ones.
I think you're selling the Romans pretty short on that one. Had political issues not caused the empire to implode we'd be a good 1400 years ahead of where we are now.
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
5,530
Location
near Cologne
We look back at roughly 6000 years of human history, with no real progress for 5800 years. And suddenly in the last 200 years we have made such a huge leap forward. How is that possible?

Standardization. Innovation and Exchange of Ideas.
FTFY

Thomas Edison didn't receive a standardised school education. The Greek philosophers argued until the cows came home, yet could never agree on standards for everything. Albert Einstein was an academic misfit.

Standardisation, if applied strictly and without exception, completely stifles innovation and discovery. If you learn more quickly than your classmates, you'll be bored stiff in your standardised school after a while and soon demotivated because you never get to the really interesting stuff - due to spending all the time explaining and repeating the mundane. Yet that stuff, on a much larger scale, is what advances humanity.
 

nomix

True Viking
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
7,293
Location
Norway
Car(s)
Tend do walk the 40 meters from my bed to lecture.
And while Edison didn't have standardized education and still was marvelous, a lot of people in those days didn't have standardized education, and did quite poorly academicly. There should always be options to handle extraordinary individuals in a stardardized system, but the standardized system does fulfill the role of making sure that everyone gets the same basic education, so you don't have a lot of people walking around in schools without learning.

You'll have that anyway, but if schools all keep to the same base, there's a better chance that most people will learn something. As long as the system has the flexibility to work with people who learn differently.

It doesn't work without, and it doesn't work if applied to strictly.
 

calvinhobbes

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
5,530
Location
near Cologne
It doesn't work without, and it doesn't work if applied to strictly.
:yes: Moderation, as always, is key.

As long as the system has the flexibility to work with people who learn differently.
I think that's the problem most of the time. The term "special needs" has been made synonymous with "learning impaired", which IMHO is wrong. Special needs can just as well be needs for a faster pace and more complex issues taught. But while we do have public institutions for slow learners, there is next to nothing for fast learners - they are supposed to be able to deal with it all by themselves, almost as if they're told "Well, if you're so much smarter than me (you little twerp), you'll have no trouble getting over your issues! Now get in line with mediocrity and JUST PUT YOUR MIND TO STUDYING!"
 
Top