Bernie Ecclestone indicted for bribery

lukenwolf

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Unless Mr. E. flees to a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Germanyland, he'll have to appear in court - as the accused. In effect this effectively shuts the door on his reign in F1. By the end of the year he'll be out of a job.
 

mpicco

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"Gribkowsky was found guilty of corruption, tax evasion and breach of trust, and was sentenced to eight and a half years in prison."

This is what's wrong with society... Rob a gas station to try to feed your family cos there's an economic crisis caused by bankers, get 20 years.
Rob 60 millions, get 8.5

Anyway, seems Bernie is up shit creek without a paddle. We'll see what happens.
 

MacGuffin

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I haven't heard of someone who robbed a gas station out of hunger and got sentenced to 20 years... I consider that fantasy. At least in Germany, a country, where no one needs to suffer from hunger, no matter how poor.

If anything, people here are always complaining in general, that judges are "too soft" in their verdicts and almost never do what the law would allow them to.
 
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lukenwolf

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I haven't heard of someone who robbed a gas station out of hunger and got sentenced to 20 years... I consider that fantasy. At least in Germany, a country, where no one needs to suffer from hunger, no matter how poor.

You've obviously never tried to live off Hartz IV, else you'd know what hunger is. Germany is just as bad as any other banana republic.
 

Adamar

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"Gribkowsky was found guilty of corruption, tax evasion and breach of trust, and was sentenced to eight and a half years in prison."

This is what's wrong with society... Rob a gas station to try to feed your family cos there's an economic crisis caused by bankers, get 20 years.
Rob 60 millions, get 8.5

Anyway, seems Bernie is up shit creek without a paddle. We'll see what happens.

At least be glad that he gets a prison sentence, most of the time bankers have a "Get out of jail free"-card.
 

MacGuffin

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You've obviously never tried to live off Hartz IV, else you'd know what hunger is. Germany is just as bad as any other banana republic.

Sorry but that is absolute rubbish. No other word to describe it, sorry.

Ask your grandparents about what hunger is. Or check in Africa and some parts of Asia. I know that Germans are quick with complaining about almost everything, even when they live in a paradise. But even a Hartz IV reciever is living high on the hog in comparison with the true poverty in the world.

The only thing that Hartz IV recievers suffer from, is the feeling they are the ones who miss out on the general wealth of our society. It's that they must buy in discounters, that they cannot go to restaurants and cannot afford a car. Basically it's a question of social status. It's more a mental problem, than a material one.

And yes, I have talked to them. I happen to live in an area with the highest unemployment in Germany. Actually many of them have been employed in my company. And those who are still with us because they actually want to work for their living, report that even with Hartz IV they were okay. The only thing they suffered from, was their low self-esteem and a feeling of being useless.

People tend to complain, when they compare themselves to those who are better off. That is what's happening here. But real poverty? Real suffering? Real hunger? Nonsense.
 
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MacGuffin

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I know but I cannot let something like that unanswered, just because it is off-topic ;)
 

DanRoM

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It is allowed to open new threads.

So if you or lukenwolf feel the need to discuss that topic further, do that in a thread of its own, please.
 

SchumacherM

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Oh fuck it, it's the 3 week break, nothing to talk about in the F1 section anyway. Who cares. :D
 

Jimi Hendrix

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I know but I cannot let something like that unanswered, just because it is off-topic ;)

Problem is what you wrote has no connection whatsoever with reality. Anyone who has lived in or even visited Germany (any normal city, not a Kaffdorf) will see the people asking for money, the guys picking plastic bottles, etc. Poverty is there for everyone to be seen, why do you try to ignore it?
 

Dr_Grip

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There are two kinds of poverty in Germany, maybe even three:
1. The people who, due to psychological or other circumstances, fall out of the welfare systems: people losing their jobs and subsequently homes and due to lack of a social net to pick them up and an inability to contact the authorities to push through welfare applications end up homeless and, if they were not already before, drug-dependent and/or mentally ill as a result. These are the people you see begging for money on subway trains and street corners.

2. Welfare recipients: Due to the bad design of the "Hartz IV" welfare system and the unbelievably low monthly payout (try living off 382 Euros a month, with no extra money to replace broken household appliances/buy clothes/etc), Hartz IV may enable you to survive, but not to live. Additionally, keeping the "Job Center" happy so they won't cut your payout for being a suspected freeloader is almost a full-time job, reducing the time you can spend actually looking for a job. To make matters worse, you can't just opt out of Hartz IV anytime you like: You have to prove that you secured a stable income. If you just got a well-paid freelance gig for a month that will enably you to get by for, say, the next three to four months, they won't let you off the hook, but take 90% of your paycheck as a payback of the welfare money you received and you'll stay on welfare, thank you, next in like.
These are the people who you'll see collecting bottles.

3. The third group could be integrated into the second: The working poor. More than a third of Hartz IV victims recipients are actually working half or even full time in some shit service industry job that pays them less than their Hartz IV payout would be, so they get a partly Hartz IV payment in order to get by. This mostly affects single mothers.
 
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AiR

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You have real beggars? Not just the organized Romanians with iPhones?

Bernie of course won't go to jail, that's ridiculous. He's too wealthy and old.
 
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Dr_Grip

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MacGuffin

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There are two kinds of poverty in Germany, maybe even three:
1. The people who, due to psychological or other circumstances, fall out of the welfare systems: people losing their jobs and subsequently homes and due to lack of a social net to pick them up and an inability to contact the authorities to push through welfare applications end up homeless and, if they were not already before, drug-dependent and/or mentally ill as a result. These are the people you see begging for money on subway trains and street corners.

2. Welfare recipients: Due to the bad design of the "Hartz IV" welfare system and the unbelievably low monthly payout (try living off 382 Euros a month, with no extra money to replace broken household appliances/buy clothes/etc), Hartz IV may enable you to survive, but not to live. Additionally, keeping the "Job Center" happy so they won't cut your payout for being a suspected freeloader is almost a full-time job, reducing the time you can spend actually looking for a job. To make matters worse, you can't just opt out of Hartz IV anytime you like: You have to prove that you secured a stable income. If you just got a well-paid freelance gig for a month that will enably you to get by for, say, the next three to four months, they won't let you off the hook, but take 90% of your paycheck as a payback of the welfare money you received and you'll stay on welfare, thank you, next in like.
These are the people who you'll see collecting bottles.

3. The third group could be integrated into the second: The working poor. More than a third of Hartz IV victims recipients are actually working half or even full time in some shit service industry job that pays them less than their Hartz IV payout would be, so they get a partly Hartz IV payment in order to get by. This mostly affects single mothers.

Funny and rather ironic side note on this (and I hope nobody bothers me repyling to you): My cousin's current boyfriend is a former Hartz IV recipient, who now works for a security company. His job is to protect the city's job center... Of course he is being paid lousy and treated like scum.

For example he has to lock the building at 9 p.m. but his official working hours end at 5 p.m. There is nobody else, who could do the door-locking for him, because for some reason the security company has trouble finding local employees... Which means he can either choose to stay there or take a train home (which takes an hour), grab something to eat and head right back again a second time only to lock the doors and return home again after that.

And since there is nobody to replace or fill in for him, he even has to do that, when he is sick and should stay in bed. Seriously: How much trust would you put in the safety of an authority and its building, when the security guys are being treated that way?

He is a classic example of how many people are being exploited nowadays and he's now seriously considering to change his job and work in a callcenter, because there he is being treated much better and paid more money.
 
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MadCow809

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Bernie Ecclestone wins court case relating to F1 sale

Bernie Ecclestone has won a High Court case relating to the sale of Formula 1 in 2005, but the court ruled the deal was corrupt.

A London judge dismissed the claim from German company Constantin Medien against Ecclestone over his involvement in the sale of the sport's rights to CVC nine years ago.

German banker Gerhard Gribkowsky was jailed for eight and a half years for corruption over the agreement, which relates to a $44 million payment he received from Ecclestone at the time.

Judge Guy Newey said Ecclestone had paid the bribe to Gribkowsky, but dismissed Constantin Medien's claim that Ecclestone tried to undervalue Formula 1 in order to help the sale to CVC.

Constantin Medien had sued Ecclestone for up to $144 million.

"The payments were a bribe," judge Newey wrote in his conclusions.

"They were made because Mr Ecclestone had entered into a corrupt agreement with Dr Gribkowsky in May 2005 under which Dr Gribkowsky was to be rewarded for facilitating the sale of BLB's shares in the Formula One group to a buyer acceptable to Mr Ecclestone."

He added: "It was no part of Mr Ecclestone's purpose ... to be sold at an undervalue."

Ecclestone will stand trial in April in Germany after being indicted in July in connection to an alleged 45 million Euro bribe paid to Gribkowsky.

The 83-year-old stepped down from his role on Formula 1's management board last month following the news that he would stand trial.
 

Kiskaloo

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And the Germany case is about bribery, so Jude Newey noting that Bernie bribed folks means his verdict may not exactly be a strong argument for the defense in the German case. ;)
 
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