BMW about the Mini's poor quality: "Those aren't problems, they're features!"

Donington

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What's your take on the Ford GT with the speedo in the middle?

IMHO that is fine, at least the way the dash is shaped the speedo is still facing towards you, unlike the Mini.

The whole thing about BMW engineering deliberate mistakes in their cars is just the stupidest thing in the universe.
 

katwalk

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The more I learn about minis the more I wonder why they are so loved and beetles so hated.
 

Dogbert

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I got to J.D. Power and Associates and stopped reading. Does the Mini actually have poor quality, or are we just going by what the survey says?
 

Jay

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Does the Mini actually have poor quality, or are we just going by what the survey says?

No. They are built very well, actually. I think the numbers are skewed because average people are buying these cars, and are baffled by the interior.

We all know this car is built to BMW's anal retentive standards; so something is funny in this survey, the root cause being that it was/is conducted by JD Power. Too bad the majority of people see his surveys as a thing of importance and judge from that, rather than individual impressions.
 

SpitfireMK461

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Approaching 80,000 miles and 7 years of life and my Mini hasn't exactly been showing poor quality. Aside from usual servicing, it has never needed to go into the shop. The interior is a very comfortable place to be (mind you, it's no Rolls Royce, but I certainly like it better than Toyotas, Hondas, and Fords). Sure, it has had some minor issues, such as the wind deflectors that pop up when you open the sunroof rattle when it is closed (so i took them out), and the vinyl around the parking break is coming loose from its holding, but small things can be expected from any car that is used for a while.

Basically, JD Power is full of shit. There is a reason why it's still hard meeting demand for the Mini.
 

Donington

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There is a reason why it's still hard meeting demand for the Mini.

Because there's no way me, Chelsi and Paige are taking the BUS to Abercrombie and Fitch and then on to work at Foxtons! Per-lease!


The more I learn about minis the more I wonder why they are so loved and beetles so hated.

I'm not sure about this either. Out of them all, I think the Fiat 500 is the most faithful 'retro' car, even if it is front engined.
 

klankymen

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The more I learn about minis the more I wonder why they are so loved and beetles so hated.

Maybe because the Beetle is underneath just a Golf IV, which is a PIECE OF SHIT CRAP COCK EVERYTHINGBREAKMOBILE (I would know, I have one).

OK, sorry for the rant, moving on... aren't JD Power reliability studies basically bullshit? I mean jaguar and buick came out on top... wtf?
 

TC

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I always hear people say JDPowers is bullshit, but they never supply any other studies.
 

MacGuffin

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I always hear people say JDPowers is bullshit, but they never supply any other studies.

Well, I don't know about the USA but here in Germany there are two annual studies based on statistical data and not on customer's opinions, which are very influential: The "ADAC Pannenstatistik" and the "T?V Report".

The first is based on the data from the repair car fleet of Europe's biggest automobile club, the second on the data of the mandatory technical inspections every car has to go through every 2 years in Germany.

Edit: I just read the results of the German JD Power survey and frankly it's all a bit weird, because it often contradicts the objective results in above mentioned studies. As I understand it, JD Power uses online forms sent to random people. And for a certain car to be listed, it is enough to get 50 (!) replies for it.

That is not representative and the system obviously prefers unsatisfied customers, because it is a known fact, that the chances of filling out and sending back such a form are considerably higher with people who have a complaint.
So the results are always warped, because there are of course always more people who complain about a Golf, than about a Jaguar for example. Especially the owners of "stylish" cars are also more forgiving, than salesmen who drive a Passat.
Also I don't see any equational formulas or factors in the JD Power survey, which take into consideration, how a car is used -- it's one big, undifferentiated list.

And of course it is more likely to complain about something for, say, a Mini owner, than for a Toyota Prius owner ;)

Another point is, that also the customer service of the car maker is taken into consideration. It doesn't reflect the fact, that more and more car owners do not let the maintenance and service be done by the contractors of the car maker anymore. I am such a person. The VW service is a nightmarish mixture of arrogance, incompetence and overpricing. Always has been ever since I had cars from VAG.

Yet I always liked the cars. Therefore I only go to independent garages like A.T.U., who offer good prices, excellent service and are often much more competent, than the VW "sorry, we are currently on lunch break" idiots.

So I stand to my opinion, that user surveys are mostly useless.
 
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katwalk

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Maybe because the Beetle is underneath just a Golf IV, which is a PIECE OF SHIT CRAP COCK EVERYTHINGBREAKMOBILE (I would know, I have one).

OK, sorry for the rant, moving on... aren't JD Power reliability studies basically bullshit? I mean jaguar and buick came out on top... wtf?

The only thing that broke on mine that wasn't the trim or burnt bulbs is one of the window got stuck down and some sensors went out. :?
(I'm excluding the convertible top because it was the first convertible year making it very likely to break)
 

Spectre

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JD Powers has been crap for the better part of a decade. They used to be fairly accurate, but about a decade ago they stopped offering their data for peer review and got heavily into "manufacturer sponsored studies" at which point they seem to have gone off into the weeds.

A better alternative seems to be the R.L. Polk studies. Then there's Consumer Reports who is absolutely not to be trusted.

While it's fun to twit people with a post-2000 JD Powers study that supports one's particular marque, in serious discussion it simply doesn't hold up. If I believed that it had any merit whatsoever, I would be trumpeting the Jaguar win in the latest survey... but as you all may have noticed, I'm not.
 

MacGuffin

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Maybe because the Beetle is underneath just a Golf IV, which is a PIECE OF SHIT CRAP COCK EVERYTHINGBREAKMOBILE (I would know, I have one).

Actually mine is the most reliable car I ever owned. Granted, it only has 65000 km on the odometer but it's 10 years old now.

The defects I had over the years include:

- Power window motor on the passenger side
- Plastic hose for the water delivery to the rear windscreen wipers went off
- Some issues about changing revs in idle
- Some broken light bulbs both external and internal
- Windscreen wiper drive had to be replaced
- Some broken hose in the engine compartment
- Worn-out battery
- A leak in the water tank for the windscreen wipers

Other than that no problems. Everything works fine. Even the trim is still in good shape, nothing has worn out, although there is a steady issue with knocking noises in the front door hinges, which can probably be solved with some lubricant.

The worn-out battery got me stranded on a cold winter morning once but that frankly was my own fault. After 8 years of mainly city traffic it was simply finished and I should have replaced it earlier. Apart from that, the car never let me down or forced me to go to the garage immediately, even though they say that city traffic wears out a car much faster, than long distance travels. I should mention that the car is always parked under trees with a nasty fallout that attacks the paint and the rubber. Yet everything's still in good shape.
 
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katwalk

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Oh the wiper fluid hose on mine keeps falling off too, I had to you pyte tape to get it to stay. Seems to be working well. The trim that has fallen off is all convertible related, the back flap that goes up and down when the top moves and the bit that is next to the handle. The top other than having no power anymore still can go up and down fine manually and doesn't even leak. It's not even bothersome enough for me to get fixed. I'm rather convinced if I had got the GL model with roll up windows and a manual top nothing would have broken on it. Most cars have real issues by now that effect how it runs, mine has only had issues with the convenience things. The suspension even still works fine. Considering how I drive and how badly maintained the roads are around here that is AMAZING. At the very least if my car is broken I can always safely drive it to the shop to be fixed.
 
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smib

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So JD PowAss asked people what they thought of their new cars. A bunch of Mini owner said, "Well, I thought the interior was fun and such when I tested it, but in day to day driving those little things turned out to be kind of annoying. Built quite well, though."
JD interprets this as: "Total POS"
 

unknownspeedster

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I must admit my car hasn't been really reliable, stuff goes wrong regularly from the engine to body parts, but all those problems are forgotten as soon as you take the car for a drive, you get a lot of wingers with these cars on the mini forums, but as with anything 95% people on there are posting too complain, while the 5% enjoy them don't post about the postives and probably that same group where questioned by JDpower about the car.
 

ja404

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Yeah, I second that the MKIV Golf sucks. My mom has owned one for about 6 years and every single sensor has gone on it along with the exhaust, tail lights on a monthly basis, axles, tranny, ignition, etc etc.
 

tone76

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The more I learn about minis the more I wonder why they are so loved and beetles so hated.

The new Mini remains faithful to the original, i.e. a small front wheel drive car with moderate performance, superb handling and a big-ass speedometer in the centre of the dash. The New Beetle is just a caricature of the old one. The New Beetle's main problem is that the old Beetle was so loved, and the New Beetle is the antithesis of the old one ... which put it on the back foot in the first place.

As for the JD Checkbook survey ... really, does anyone take those things seriously? I think all it proves is that Toyota is still able to write bigger checks than anyone else in the business ...
 

Dsemaj

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The more I learn about minis the more I wonder why they are so loved and beetles so hated.

Well, the Mini wasn't originally envisaged by Hilter and didn't have the engine in the back! ;)

@Unknownspeedster what went wrong apart from the hood scoop melting and the ecu screwing up?
 

unknownspeedster

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Well, the Mini wasn't originally envisaged by Hilter and didn't have the engine in the back! ;)

@Unknownspeedster what went wrong apart from the hood scoop melting and the ecu screwing up?

lol,
the things that have gone wrong just looking at the service reports in my filling cabinet.

Inner wheel trim (caused by my wheels, generously replaced by bmw)
Blown Fuses x 2 (cant be explained)
Hood Scoop x 3 (all sorted now since BMW revised the design)
Cold start x 4 (all sorted also BMW revised the tension and been quiet since)
ECU (slighly my fault)
Radio (stopped holding Pre-sets, 30 mins at BMW and it works again)
Engine lights (still pop up once it a while, leaves no fault codes and has stalled a few times seem to be associated when near empty fuel wise)

I must admit though the product has its faults, but it seem BMW atleast try to resolve it issues so far and sort it out without to much fuss.

But yer, you hop into it and take it for a drive and any thoughts of selling it disappear.
 
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