Rumour Mill: BMW over - everyone go home.

[ahpadt]

It's not about wanting an auto or not. You're likely gonna be forced to.

 

[Evel]

DSGs are faster at shifting than even a very experienced manual driver, which translates to faster track times. If you plan on tracking your car, why would you knowingly make yourself slower?

I don't know about other people, but personally if I were to attend track days, even on a regular basis, it would be for the sheer fun of it, not to be .02 seconds faster than everyone else.

 

[chaos386]

The only thing that car should decide on its own is the AFR and spark timing everything else is up to the driver.

How about EBD and ABS?

 

[rickhamilton620]

Does an Audi A1 cannibalize sales from the VW Polo? I guess there are enough added sales, to justify the minimal cost of the rebadge. As long as they are selling cars, doesn't really matter to the company which badge it has on it. I'm sure there are enough people who would rather have a BMW than a Mini, for a myriad of reasons, from badge to styling.

That's an example of platfom sharing not rebadging. If this BMW doesnt look like a mini with a bmw badge then I think it wont eat into Mini sales in the slightest. Only people into cars realize that modern day Mini's are BMW vehicles, and among those groups BMW can differentiate with different tuning, styling, features and options.

I think there is a certain lifestyle that comes with owning a Mini. Girls think they're cute. A cold, emotionless black/silver/white BMW hatchback would probably appeal to a much different demographic, I would imagine.

:well that makes the BMW sound like a upscale rental car, and not at all appealing...:lol:

 

[prizrak]

How about EBD and ABS?

EBD being electronic brake force distribution? A4 had it and it didn't seem to do anything special as far as stopping distance was concerned, the Scoob brakes more or less the same far as I can tell. ABS I could take or leave, I am fine driving without it but I can see why people would prefer it.

 

[narf]

Maybe not it Europe, but in the US the Fiesta can be had with a dual clutch auto for 10,300 GBP ($16,090). For reference, the Nissan Versa is the cheapest car available in the US at $10,990 for a manual or $12,760 with a CVT.

I think the key question was whether they would some day be DSG-only. You can get a small car with a DSG in Europe as well, VAG will sell you a Polo, Fabia, A1, or Ibiza with several choices of engines mated to a DSG. Only the up!/Citigo/Mii is not (yet?) available with a DSG.
The cheapest way to get your hands on (off?) a VAG DSG is a mid-range Fabia for 17.7k? ($22k), they don't sell it in the lower spec ranges. That's the list price of course, before haggling I can get you one for 14.2k? ($17.6k)

EBD being electronic brake force distribution? A4 had it and it didn't seem to do anything special as far as stopping distance was concerned, the Scoob brakes more or less the same far as I can tell. ABS I could take or leave, I am fine driving without it but I can see why people would prefer it.

Yup, that's EBD. Without it the Octavia would have been turned to a pile of dents in its first winter, braking with the left wheels on asphalt and right wheels on snow when some idiot changes lanes in your face on the Autobahn is no fun.

 

[Mills]

That's an example of platfom sharing not rebadging. If this BMW doesnt look like a mini with a bmw badge then I think it wont eat into Mini sales in the slightest. Only people into cars realize that modern day Mini's are BMW vehicles, and among those groups BMW can differentiate with different tuning, styling, features and options.

I know that, I just like the term rebadge better than platform sharing.

 

[narf]

I know that, I just like the term rebadge better than platform sharing.

Wouldn't the Vauxhall/Opel Astra be a rebadge? That certainly is more related than just platform sharing. After all, the Octavia estate shares its platform with the Golf hatchback, and that certainly is no rebadge.

 

[prizrak]

Yup, that's EBD. Without it the Octavia would have been turned to a pile of dents in its first winter, braking with the left wheels on asphalt and right wheels on snow when some idiot changes lanes in your face on the Autobahn is no fun.

That doesn't sound fun at all... This would have to be part of ESP I would assume, don't seem much point in having one w/o the other

 

[rickhamilton620]

Wouldn't the Vauxhall/Opel Astra be a rebadge? That certainly is more related than just platform sharing. After all, the Octavia estate shares its platform with the Golf hatchback, and that certainly is no rebadge.

The Vauxhall/Opel Astra would indeed be an example of a rebadge.

The Cruze would be an example of platform sharing. Differing "top hats" and interior trimmings but same/similar platform under it all.

I know that, I just like the term rebadge better than platform sharing.

:lol: guilty as charged...

/goes back to aligning his dash vents.

 

[narf]

That doesn't sound fun at all... This would have to be part of ESP I would assume, don't seem much point in having one w/o the other

They do work together, considering both influence individual wheel braking. ABS is part of the mix as well.

However, ESP is for turning. This was straight-line braking, keeping the car straight through it. Without EBP the additional braking on one side would spin the car instantly. ESP may try to recover that, EBP stops it before there is a need to recover.

 

[prizrak]

They do work together, considering both influence individual wheel braking. ABS is part of the mix as well.

However, ESP is for turning. This was straight-line braking, keeping the car straight through it. Without EBP the additional braking on one side would spin the car instantly. ESP may try to recover that, EBP stops it before there is a need to recover.

Live and learn

 

[narf]

Indeed. You could tell how low traction was, flooring it in sixth just above idle revs would make the TC go bonkers.

Also, emphasis on live :lol:

 

[prizrak]

Indeed. You could tell how low traction was, flooring it in sixth just above idle revs would make the TC go bonkers.

Also, emphasis on live :lol:

I tend to not have much traction trouble AWD and all

 

[mpicco]

DSGs are faster at shifting than even a very experienced manual driver, which translates to faster track times. If you plan on tracking your car, why would you knowingly make yourself slower?

Give me a break.... if you go to track days it's for the fun of it. There's no fun to driving a glorified go-kart which is what fully-automatic performance cars are.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe not it Europe, but in the US the Fiesta can be had with a dual clutch auto for 10,300 GBP ($16,090). For reference, the Nissan Versa is the cheapest car available in the US at $10,990 for a manual or $12,760 with a CVT.

Because you americans are frikken ADDICTED to automatic transmissions. If you can't drive with one hand and hold your gigantic cup of coffee with the other, it's not a car. A car with no automatic option barely sells.

 

[narf]

Give me a break.... if you go to track days it's for the fun of it. There's no fun to driving a glorified go-kart which is what fully-automatic performance cars are.

There is a lot of fun to driving a go-kart

 

[prizrak]

Give me a break.... if you go to track days it's for the fun of it. There's no fun to driving a glorified go-kart which is what fully-automatic performance cars are.

Umm... Go-karts are a SHITLOAD of fun and are quite hard to set a good time in unless you are good. Not all people just go for fun, people actually do compete in racing even if they are not pro level.

Because you americans are frikken ADDICTED to automatic transmissions. If you can't drive with one hand and hold your gigantic cup of coffee with the other, it's not a car. A car with no automatic option barely sells.

...... M5 only has a manual because of the US market, Europeans were happy with the paddle shifter.... The only reason why US has those automatic options is because cars are significantly cheaper to buy and run around here if you think that europeans drive manuals because they just love them so frigging much you are sorely mistaken... On a separate note I have 0 problems drinking coffee and driving my manual, it really isn't that hard....

 

[TC]

I'd also like to point out that all of our higher end performance cars were/are manual only. The Corvette Z06 and ZR1, Ford GT, Shelby GT500, Mustang Boss 302, all the Dodge Vipers, etc.

 

[Cobol74]

Through choice I prefer manuals but in heavy traffic I see the advantage with an auto. One day someone will get that 'variable ratio' auto box sorted properly, one day.

 

[argatoga]

I said spark timing should be controlled by car I want the choke back damnit!

You know even newer EFI motorcycles still have chocks.