BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

jack_christie

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MacGuffin

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People tend to forget that there is no big, anonymous moloch called "the EU".

The EU consists of 28 countries who try to push their interests through or at least get a fair compromise.

People therefore shouldn't be surprised if the one thing they criticize as bureaucratic nonsense of the EU, was actually proposed by their own government...

Doesn't happen much, you say? It does. All the time.
 

MacGuffin

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BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

Ok, I just read that Donald Trump thinks that the UK would be better off without the EU...

That's definitely the strongest argument so far for those who support a Brexit ;)
 
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MacGuffin

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BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

Why not? Looks like Boris Johnson already accepted Donald Trump as a role model :D

And I'm not referring to their hairstyle...
 
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Cobol74

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Cobol74's post is a prime example of what I don't like about the UK. They're cherrypickers and have absolutely no interest in Europe beyond their own direct economic gain.
Now let me see - it's not like other countries do that now is it? France for instance and I give you Strasbourg. ...
 

jack_christie

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Interrobang

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What if the UK left the union and joined the US and became a territory?
The daily show had this funny segment a couple of days back concerning how terrible both Trump and Clinton are and at the end they said something along the lines of that there is only one solution: Apologize to the Queen, pay for the tea and hope they?ll take you back as a colony ...
 

MacGuffin

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There has been an interesting question coming up on news media here and I wonder if those Britons here who are for UK leaving the EU, can confirm or deny it:

Some very serious media sources here indicate that those who are for a Brexit speculate on leaving the EU with keeping the common market privileges and other niceties while getting rid of the inconvenient stuff, like, say, paying money or letting EU immigrants into the country. And some seem to believe that once Britain has left the EU, a new membership under better conditions could be negotiated. Let me make this very clear:

Will. Not. Happen.

On the contrary: The EU Commission will be very, very strict with U.K., if only to make an example, so that others don't take the same path. That has nothing to do with being vengeful (even though I am sure it will be communicated that way in Britain afterwards). After all, we're talking about an international treaty here and if one country shows that its regulations can be re-negotiated or softened, it would have a cascading effect on other EU member states. So expect a hard fall on a very icy ground, once Britain has left the U.K. The EU won't give an inch. Once the UK is out, it's out and that's it. No more common market, no more money for structural weak regions (like Cornwall for instance), no niceties.

What follows, will be negotiations on a new treaty with the EU, something similar to what Switzerland and Norway have. And that can take years. Years without the common market and other privileges the EU provides. Doesn't matter, you say? As long as it keeps those pesty immigrants away? Think again: In order to keep the benefits of a new market without being a EU member, Britain would also have to fulfill certain obligations in return -- like for example still accepting immigrants from the EU! I mention this because money aside, the immigrant question seems to be the main motivator behind a Brexit.

So how long would it take for the UK and the EU to negotiate a new treaty (which is of course absolutely necessary for the future relations)? The only example we have for such an event, is when Greenland left the EU. Greenland, the country which basically lives from catching and selling fish. Still it took three years to negotiate a new treaty with the EU. Three years without any of the EU benefits, without a common market.

With UK, experts calculate about ten years. Won't go faster. See the TTIP negotiations and how slow they're going.

So a Brexit would not mean you just stop being a member of the EU but losing all EU privilges from day one after the Brexit, with the hope of maybe re-gaining them in 10 years or so -- but without any say in EU businesses. And what if Britain decides to go back into the EU again one day? Well, they can but without all the discounts and privileges Margaret Thatcher negotiated. No more special treatments.

Still willing to leave the EU? Okay then. Go with God but go already ;)
 
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Nocturnal

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I think for most people, the debate revolves around sovereignty. Only the misguided base their judgements on immigration or national security because the fact is that our position in both will not change regardless of the outcome. The same goes for businesses to be honest.

In real-terms, the posturing on both sides is nothing more than scare-mongering. We're being given the choice of being gang-raped by migrants or losing our homes and jobs, because the Government is trying to pander to the stupid majority in an effort to gain favour. The 'in' movement sealed their own fate recently by having Blair and Major as representatives. Nobody is stupid enough to take their word for anything and Cameron is trying his hardest to get us to remain because he knows he's out of an MEP job if we leave. I think there are benefits to both staying in and leaving, the reality is that we'll either get shafted by rich British politicians or by rich European officials.
 
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MacGuffin

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The IN movement did a bad job promoting their arguments, they seem ike a bunch of dreary intellectuals who can only talk in numbers.

The OUT movement on the other hand sometimes seems to be laughing while jumping into a buzz saw.

The clown Boris Johnson held a Cornish Pastie into the air shouting something like "Pastie for the Brexit", appparently being unaware that the the Cornish Pastie is a protected brand name under E.U. law at the moment, which means only bakeries in Cornwall are allowed to produce, market and sell it in the EU. If Britain leaves the E.U., however, every bakery in Europe can produce, advertise and sell Cornish Pasties legally for lower prices, very likely killing off the bakeries in Cornwall.

So much for national identity.
 
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argatoga

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If Britain leaves the E.U., however, every bakery in Europe can produce, advertise and sell Cornish Pasties legally for lower prices, very likely killing off the bakeries in Cornwall.

So much for national identity.
How will it kill off the bakeries? If their food tastes good it will sell.
 

calvinhobbes

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How will it kill off the bakeries? If their food tastes good it will sell.
Have you thought about pricing? Once it can be made outside Cornwall and still be called a Cornish Pasty, bakeries in Cornwall will/may face stiff competition that imitates their product and mass-produces it, thereby damaging the brand and putting smaller producers out of business.
 

Nocturnal

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They're made outside of Cornwall anyway, they just aren't supposed to be called "Cornish" by law. Of course, you can still sell it as an *insert ingredient name* pasty which is what everyone does.

Cornwall wont detonate into the sea just because they lose the legal right to the name of a sub-?1 snack.
 

calvinhobbes

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They're made outside of Cornwall anyway, they just aren't supposed to be called "Cornish" by law. Of course, you can still sell it as an *insert ingredient name* pasty which is what everyone does.
And you can still make and sell sparkling wine, ham and beer - just not everyone can call them Champagne, Parma ham and K?lsch. Which is the point of the protected denominations and the reason why those specialties are special.

Cornwall wont detonate into the sea just because they lose the legal right to the name of a sub-?1 snack.
Nobody said it would. What was pointed out was the irony of Boris Johnson using Cornish Pasties as a symbol of must-be-defended-against-the-EU Britishness when the rules that make Cornish Pasties special pasties are EU rules.
 
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