BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

Spectre

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Not sure how you call it glorious.

They are still hiding the economic impact assessments of Brexit.

Still hiding the intelligence reports on Brexit.

Considering all the areas ravaged by Tory austerity will now have five more years of it and probably be hit hardest by Brexit.

Boris Johnson's biggest achievement so far was the London riots, hope he doesn't surpass that.
I didn't say the "glorious" part applied to any of the above items you listed. Watching the hubris of the biased media as their gleefully reported predictions came to grief on the rocks of reality was what was glorious. No more or less.

Whether you were a Remainer or a Brexiteer, an impartial media should be a goal everyone supports - and partisan media should be excoriated whenever possible, not accepted as 'normal.'

I would also have described the comeuppance for the media as glorious if they had (for example) gleefully predicted a Tory landslide with wall to wall coverage for days and days only to have Labour or better yet the Monster Raving Loony Party win in a landslide instead.
 

ScarFace88

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I honestly think that until Labour gets rid of Corbyn and his merry band of tankies like Seumas Milne, they're going to keep losing.
 

jack_christie

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Personally, I think that whether the UK left the EU or remained, it should have worked out a deal with the Irish government to reunify Northern Ireland with the rest of the island with protections for the Protestants, etc., and left. The UK does not need to be in Ireland and there's no real justification for a continued presence once protections are in place.

It was rich to see the UK condemning Russia for their recent military adventures in the Crimea when the justifications Russia used are the same ones that the UK used to justify Northern Ireland.

As for the SNP - they might be well advised to wait until at least 2024 if not later for another referendum. They might not like the answer they get from their own voters if they don't.
They can't as Unionists have about 50% of the vote.

Need consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, which is probably about ten years away unless Unionists start voting for a United Ireland.
 

Spectre

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I honestly think that until Labour gets rid of Corbyn and his merry band of tankies like Seumas Milne, they're going to keep losing.
Corbyn's already resigned from leadership as of this morning and said he will not stand for any further leadership posts in Labour. Dunno about the rest of his merry Red band, though.

They can't as Unionists have about 50% of the vote.

Need consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, which is probably about ten years away unless Unionists start voting for a United Ireland.
Didn't you just finish saying that the Remainers, not the Unionists, now hold the majority of MP slots from NI not a few posts back?
 

jack_christie

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Corbyn's already resigned from leadership as of this morning and said he will not stand for any further leadership posts in Labour. Dunno about the rest of his merry Red band, though.



Didn't you just finish saying that the Remainers, not the Unionists, now hold the majority of MP slots from NI not a few posts back?
Its the first time that happened.
https://www.rte.ie/news/uk-election-2019/results/

Probably won't have a referendum on Irish unity until the result is guaranteed.
 

SirEdward

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I didn't expect a victory THAT big. I was expecting a 50%-50% or mild conservative, as if it was another Brexit referendum. So it is clear that I wasn't factoring in the effect of the Labour's program and a series of other things.

Now at least we are sure that we'll get to see what Brexit will be like.

I can't say I am happy with the result.

For everyone that dislikes the left and rejects socialism.
I think we should try to always remember that "left" and "socialism" do not mean the most extreme ideas of the left political spectrum.
 

DanRoM

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As for glorious... it was glorious in at least one way - seeing just how wrong the "common wisdom," "accurate polls," talking heads and all the other gleeful media idiots were. According to them, the election was supposed to be a tsunami in Labour's favor - but it seems to have been the exact opposite. Now they look like the partisan imbeciles they really are.
You're completely wrong here. The polls have predicted a Tory win for weeks.
 

Spectre

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You're completely wrong here. The polls have predicted a Tory win for weeks.
The UK/US media that I saw were predicting a giant tsunami of younger voters. At *best* ('best' in this case meaning that it was closest to reality) were predictions that it was 'too close to call.' One disclaimer - I had to reduce my consumption of UK election coverage since around Thanksgiving due to work and personal obligations eating that time, so I may have missed late coverage.

Cases in point to demonstrate some of the crap they were spewing:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/08/world/europe/young-voters-uk-election-brexit.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/09/britain-young-people-registered-election

That's just from a cursory check of my history - there were plenty more. The coverage I saw from here was more of the "Hillary's gonna win" kinda crap we got in 2016. Edit: There was even a rather sad opinion piece in the Spectator at one point where some Brit was telling people to ask their kids not to vote so Labour and their buddies wouldn't get in.

Anyway, I did think that even if those leads had existed, the recent terror/asshole attacks in the UK would have a disproportionate impact on the outcome in the Tories' favor. Labour is historically soft on such things and people would be rather unhappy about that.
 
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MWF

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The issue we have in the UK is that the majority of the press is right wing and owned by the likes of the Barclay brothers and Murdoch who are massive supporters of the Conservatives as they allow them all sorts of freedoms and tax loopholes. It's one of the main reasons why the Brexit vote was won - the EU is on the verge of closing many of these tax loopholes and these Tory donors would be forced to pay a lot more tax.

The right wing press have peddled the lies about the benefits of leaving the EU just as they have conspired to smear the Labour party and Corbyn since the referendum to ensure their own agenda is fulfilled.

Sadly there are enough people in the UK who are blinkered, brain-dead or sufficiently brain-washed by what they read in the press to ensure that we are virtually guaranteed a Conservative government.
 

LeVeL

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That's quite interesting @MWF - it's the opposite in the US, where the left controls the media almost completely.
 

MWF

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You also have to bear in mind what constitutes "left" in our respective countries. Even the most liberal American standpoint would be considered at best centre-ist here, and moderate socialists from the UK would count as virutally communist to many Americans.

This is the breakdown of our national newspapers

Left Wing
Guardian (Observer on Sundays)
Daily Mirror

Left Leaning
The Independent

Liberal/Centreist
Financial Times

Right Wing
Sun
Daily Star
Daily Express
Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday
Telegraph
Times/Sunday Times
London Evening Standard
Metro (claims no political affiliation but is a free paper available on public transport and comes from the publishers of the Waily Fail).

You can see why any Labour win is an uphill struggle when most of the propaganda people read comes from organisations opposed to them.
 

MWF

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Where would you put the BBC? Seems pretty neutral and un-biased.
They are supposed to be impartial but this election in particular their reporting on certain issues has certainly favoured the Tories. What they say has remained neutral, but they've certainly failed to report on certain issues which would have had a more positive effect for Labour and been more damaging to the Conservatives.
 

gaasc

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Is that so? Because from this side it seems like they are actually rather biased to the left. Granted, this is from my experience with their news app (Which also had some clickbait last time I checked) and their non-news related content.

It's very interesting how different the perceptions are across the ocean.
 

MWF

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The BBC as a whole is left leaning but their news arm when it comes to politics has to be seen to be neutral however the amount of coverage afforded to certain issues around this election compared to others has definitely favoured the Tories.
 

mpicco

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For everyone that dislikes the left and rejects socialism.

Btw: I am a "remainer"
You don't reject socialism, you reap the benefits of it every day. Or do you pay for your private firefighters, your private roads, your private plumbing, your private etc.?

That being said:
First past the post voting system needs to fucking die.
Conservatives get 43% of the vote, 56% of the house seats.

According to them, the election was supposed to be a tsunami in Labour's favor
Find me ONE article saying it'd be a Labour landslide
 

mpicco

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