British Election Thread

nomix

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What scares the brits here the most about the prospect of (probably) a long/short period of time with Cameronism? And visa versa, what are you looking forward to?
 

Cobol74

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None of the above - the Fiscal crises is so bad people just do not realise, no they really do not - this will be terrible on a par with the impact of WWII financially.
 

jmsprovan

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What scares the brits here the most about the prospect of (probably) a long/short period of time with Cameronism? And visa versa, what are you looking forward to?
Although Cameron could be described as positively liberal, the party he stands at the front of is still full of the rich, xenophobic, anti-european, anti-scotish/irish/welsh/northern-english old men that have run the party for decades.

What scares people is that Cameron gets them into power, then is played like a puppet by the "true" party rulers to return to the Thatcher era of: Poor get even poorer, Rich get even richer and the Scots/Irish/Welsh/northern-english get shafted for their middle-england-upper-middle-class heartland. Sell off the remaining publicly owned businesses and give Murdoch even more power over the British media (remove requirements for all news programs to be impartial - except the BBC of course, break up the BBC and move more viewers to his privately owned Sky network, ect ect ect)

All this remains to be seen, but it is the fear.
 

argatoga

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None of the above - the Fiscal crises is so bad people just do not realise, no they really do not - this will be terrible on a par with the impact of WWII financially.
I suspect WWIII is around the corner. Nothing like a world wide financial crisis to rock the boat.
 

Cobol74

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Oi, I am Anti-European Union, but not anti European - there is a distinction.

Why do you think there is an anti-celt cabal in the Tory party? What is you evidence? They just do not think of the regions, any regions at all, it not especially anti-celt or northern its anti-everywhere in so far as they just do not think that the regions should be especially treated. Murdoch has a stranglehold over both Tories and New Labour - he is anti democratic and uses his power to acquire more power.

There is a strand of working class people made good by hard work in the Tory Party - Mrs Thatcher was the embodiment of that and why she was the way she was - nothing was impossible. One step too far though, the poll tax. ...

Cameron btw is not liberal at all, he has disguised his Tory right wing credentials very well so far, none the less he is from the right of the party.
 

jmsprovan

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Why do you think there is an anti-celt cabal in the Tory party? What is you evidence? They just do not think of the regions, any regions at all, it not especially anti-celt or northern its anti-everywhere in so far as they just do not think that the regions should be especially treated.
and in my opinion no regions are treated much differently, the problem is the tories spin it that way and make their middle-england-upper-middle-class heartland feel hard done to.

Cameron btw is not liberal at all, he has disguised his Tory right wing credentials very well so far, none the less he is from the right of the party.
that is what i mean, he portrays himself as a liberal so well that some people think he is.
 

Cobol74

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and in my opinion no regions are treated much differently, the problem is the tories spin it that way and make their middle-england-upper-middle-class heartland feel hard done to.



that is what i mean, he portrays himself as a liberal so well that some people think he is.
Well Scotland and NI get shedloads of cash per head at the moment - I think you are right in one sense - that will be cut. But some of the English regions have quite a bit of deprivation too.

You may be referring to the inheritance tax stuff. I think that this is actually unfair but now is not the time to change that stuff - the Fiscal problems are priority no 1. I can not beleive that it appears that we will not have a government sorted by Monday - these people ARE IDIOTS. The markets could well crucify us - there must be a creditable Government by then - there just must be.
 

nomix

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There is a strand of working class people made good by hard work in the Tory Party - Mrs Thatcher was the embodiment of that and why she was the way she was - nothing was impossible. One step too far though, the poll tax. ...
There's a saying that nothing's worse than a recovering addict. Thatcher was that way, since she worked her way up, anyone should be able to, much in the same way some of those who's been able to stop smoking, drinking or using drugs think people who can't do it are weak, that it's their own fault, after all, how hard could it be when they were able to? It's in the heart of the liberal idea of people being responsible for their own lives, therefore individuals should have as much room to develop themselves into what they want to be, in other words, less taxes, less regulations, more freedom to the individual in an economical sort of way. It was at the core of Thatcherism, and it's still at the core of neo-conservatism. Sounds familiar? Sure it is, it's what republicans are talking about when they proclaim the idea of small government.

The problem is, though, that not all people are able to "pick themselves up by the boot straps", in fact, quite few are able to transform their lives in the way those people do. Glenn Beck has done it, which brings me back to the annoying nature of an ex-addict. I applaud those who can do it easily, it's a great gift to have. But it's very arrogant to base a country's policies on the idea that everybody have that ability, just because you are able to showcase some success stories. It's no more relevant to real life than the plackards outside BL factories stating "BL Chairman up 38 % - BL Workers up 3.8 %".

and in my opinion no regions are treated much differently, the problem is the tories spin it that way and make their middle-england-upper-middle-class heartland feel hard done to.
Do I hear wispers of "real America"?
 

jmsprovan

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I would support abolishing inheritance tax if we did not have the current financial difficulties, but trying to cut taxes during this financial climate? with a tax that will almost exclusively benefit the rich? it is just absurd.

On the face of it, It just looks like the Tories are trying to benefit the people who bankroll them.
 

Cobol74

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I agree with your first point 100% There are no luxuries - we have to examine everything and if not essential we must go away from it. One possibility is to freeze public service pay - starting with MPs. No indexsation of tax allowances. Stupid id card scheme gone. look at the MoD procurements and methods and slash the programmes to only those necessary, really necessary. Change the NI rules, up the tax rates for rich, hold the minimum wage level. Look at all benefits and see where simplifications can be made. VAT up in small stages - but do not introduce it on anything new - the worst possible tax option. Increase fine levels for criminals, introduce gaol by appointment for minor crimes where a custodial sentence is required so the costs are cut. Look at any means of raising money for the state - road charging for foreign users who have not paid the road fund licence - maybe not but that sort of thing - cost of a passport up say - there must be other stuff. Look at means testing some benefits that are universal - just for the present emergency.
 

Plissken

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The markets could well crucify us - there must be a creditable Government by then - there just must be.
No there really doesn't. The idea that we are enslaved to the markets is a con. Simply because either these markets are all knowing, unfeeling things that God himself can't even meddle with and then suddenly they are these little wallflowers that must be nurtured and look after and are vewy, vewy fwightened.

So the idea that our country is in trouble because we're in a situation that most other countries are in all the time.. no, I don't buy it.
 

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I think that the markets will do fine without knowing the BBC made it sound as thought the vote was the sole reason for the correction however larger factors are at play. However you might want to decide soon as not to confuse the people of Taiwan


AND THE FULL INSANITY

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8670297.stm
 
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teeb

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I made this, mostly out of curiosity. Shows up lots of holes in FPTP, though.

 

Cobol74

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They put the price of the debt up - costing us more to service said debt, making the adjustments we must make to LOWER the debt all the harder.
Come on, get a grip - what have we been living on?
No manufacturing what have we been exporting? Nothing mate - there is a joke in Felixstowe "What is Britain's biggest Export"? Answer: "Fresh air" because of all the containers that come into the port stuffed with goods and leave empty!

Any way there seems to be no hope of any sort of a government by tomorrow - I hope very much I am wrong.
 
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Goose+

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Come on, get a grip - what have we been living on?
Precisely. We're a post-colonial power living way beyond our means. Most of the population still seem to think we can trade and exist off our nineteenth century credentials - and the world still owes us some kind of living.

But I'm still somewhat bullish about the UK. At least we don't have Germany and France's draconian employment laws, atleast not yet. We still have some of the world's finest companies listed in London and 80% of the FTSE 100's earnings are derrived from outside of the UK. Which means no matter how shit the UK domestic economy becomes, we will still have a relatively stable equity market. Can the same be said for Greece?

If nothing else, we'll still have a strong financial sector.
 

Plissken

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They put the price of the debt up - costing us more to service said debt, making the adjustments we must make to LOWER the debt all the harder.
Apologies for the swears, but I know all that, and am of the opinion that we shouldn't be held in thrall to what is, after all, a fucking casino.

"S&P have downgraded Britains debt"
"Yeah, but they had Enron and WorldCom at Triple AAA++++ WOULD BUY AGAIN, so what the fuck do they know?"

"Confidence in the pound has dropped on uncertainty."
"Well, my pound is the same pound it was yesterday, so they can fuck off with their mind games."

(I know I'm not being realistic, but I am very, very tired of being dictated to by what is, at best, a gigantic con job and is, at worst, a cesspool and a drain on humanity.)
 

jedd_kenobi

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great choice in images plissken. pretty much sums up what i was thinking when i heard 30 mins ago. It was impossible for him to stay on. i honestly expected him to be dragged out of Downing street kicking and screaming shouting "no! i don't want to go!"
 

Labcoatguy

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great choice in images plissken. pretty much sums up what i was thinking when i heard 30 mins ago. It was impossible for him to stay on. i honestly expected him to be dragged out of Downing street kicking and screaming shouting "no! i don't want to go!"
What, like another Scotsman who was the face of a national institution in the past decade? (David Tennant)
 
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