Bugatti Veyron once again claims the title with the 267.9 mph Supersport

nist7

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Out of interest, how many SSC Ultimate Kitcars do they put together a year? I ask because I never really considered that eligible for any records (by my own arbitrary rule set) due to the small numbers. If this SS is limited to 30 I probably won't consider this eligible either.

In fact if the best tyres in the world (and remember the Veyron's are bespoke made for it) are only safe up to 258mph we shouldn't really consider any car that clocks a faster top speed than that to be considered legitimate, since it would be doing so at the expense of safety margins, until there's some big advancement in tyre technology.
Agreed. The only achievement that amazed me about the Veyron SS is that VW has managed to make it even uglier than it was. I honestly didn't think that was possible!

The absurdity and uselessness of "production car" top speed competitions are quite clear in the latest TG episode, where May mentioned how the Germans waited until the air density was at its optimal to test car and how they don't even know how safe the tires are at those unknown speeds. And so it's clear that they were driving outside the known limits of the car, plain and simple. And I doubt they will do that again anytime soon, so the top speed records should read "Car chassis #### went xxx mph on this day, at this time for this many seconds." Because it's unlikely that any actually Veyron SS or Ultimate Aero TT will go anywhere near as fast as their claimed "top speed" since you will need a team of engineers on hand with laptops and weather instruments and a closed off track and a death-wish. And so the top speed records have become essentially meaningless.
 

Spectre

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Two things should be noted here:

First: the SSC Ultimate Aero isn't just a one trick pony - one recently beat the Ferrari Enzo around Road and Track's slalom course.

Second: Looks like SSC isn't going to take this lying down and Bugatti may not have the title for very long. Jarrod Shelby (no relation to Carrol) has congratulated Bugatti on the conquest of the record... but says that their new car should "look good passing 270mph" when it premieres sometime around the end of the summer - and that they've been working on it since they first took the title away from Bugatti in 2007.

It's not over yet. :D
 
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Redliner

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The new SSC Ultimate Aero, now with 1500hp? :p
 

nist7

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Two things should be noted here:

First: the SSC Ultimate Aero isn't just a one trick pony - one recently beat the Ferrari Enzo around Road and Track's slalom course.

Second: Looks like SSC isn't going to take this lying down and Bugatti may not have the title for very long. Jarrod Shelby (no relation to Carrol) has congratulated Bugatti on the conquest of the record... but says that their new car should "look good passing 270mph" when it premieres sometime around the end of the summer - and that they've been working on it since they first took the title away from Bugatti in 2007.

It's not over yet. :D
Hell yeah. I can't wait. Even though it's useless, I'd love to see the Americans top the Germans at their own game. Of course, it's even more entertaining to see people bash on the Ultimate Aero on its ugliness (seriously? with the other car being a Veyron?), bashing on its ability to handle (Americans can't turn, nor do they know how to make a car that can) , bashing on its non-diamond studded/non-hand-made fine leather interior (yawn), bashing on how hard/scary it is to drive it at speed (i thought going 200+ was supposed to make your adrenaline go crazy, not make you fall asleep), etc.

The "excitement" about the Veyron isn't about the driving experience (since we know that virtually anyone with decent driving skills could've taken May's place) it's about watching some numbers on a little display. "OMG it reads over 400! Wow I can feel adrenal glands going crazy!"

The new SSC Ultimate Aero, now with 1500hp? :p
The 2009 Aero had 1287hp. So for the "all new 2010" model I don't think 1500hp is that far off! :cool:
 

Spectre

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They say that they had Jason Castriota pen the exterior of the new car, (yes, the Jason Castriota of Bertone and Pininfarina and newly hired design chief at Saab) so it's going to be interesting.
 

nsx_23

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The absurdity and uselessness of "production car" top speed competitions are quite clear in the latest TG episode, where May mentioned how the Germans waited until the air density was at its optimal to test car and how they don't even know how safe the tires are at those unknown speeds. And so it's clear that they were driving outside the known limits of the car, plain and simple. And I doubt they will do that again anytime soon, so the top speed records should read "Car chassis #### went xxx mph on this day, at this time for this many seconds." Because it's unlikely that any actually Veyron SS or Ultimate Aero TT will go anywhere near as fast as their claimed "top speed" since you will need a team of engineers on hand with laptops and weather instruments and a closed off track and a death-wish. And so the top speed records have become essentially meaningless.
Formula 1 teams also take air density and other meteorological readings to optimize their cars. When every mph matters, you need to go to extreme lengths to extract optimal performance. If you have the resources why not use them? When aircrafts get tested, the figures obtained are always matched against the test conditions to provide a fair reference. Bugatti should do the same here, but for advertising/headline grabbing no one but the really technical cares.

I get your point about this chase for top speed being meaningless in the real world, but to me the Veyron, SSC Aero, etc, are one of those "because we can" type engineering projects - just like the Y2K jet bike. If we go down this path its arguable no one needs any more than 300hp for road use, but that doesn't stop people buying Ferrari 458s and Pagani Zonda Rs. I still find it fascinating and slightly mind blowing how they managed to make the Veyron aerodynamic enough for such high speeds even though its not exactly what you'd call an optimum shape, and all the other design details are fascinating. I'd love to have a Veyron sitting in my lounge just because its such an awesome bit of engineering, and it'd be a sad day when insane projects like this aren't completed anymore.
 
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MattD1zzl3

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The absurdity and uselessness of "production car" top speed competitions are quite clear

From a scientific perspective sending humans to the moon in the sixties was almost a complete waste of money, sending fragile humans and their "Air, water and food" to jump around and film rocks when a probe can do the same thing much cheaper.

Actually the soviets did just that, sending 4 or 5 probes to the moon before the americans ever showed up with their MTV flags, but why dont we remember them like we remember buzz aldren? Because like the Toyota Corolla's of the world, they are only "practical", cheap economical ways to do "good enough" just barely, we remember ridiculous things, like men on the moon, driving CARS and coming home alive. Probes are for pussies.



We're coming for your record germans... God bless america

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Dont take this too seriously im not trying to start an international forum war
 
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bartboy9891

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Two things should be noted here:

First: the SSC Ultimate Aero isn't just a one trick pony - one recently beat the Ferrari Enzo around Road and Track's slalom course.

Second: Looks like SSC isn't going to take this lying down and Bugatti may not have the title for very long. Jarrod Shelby (no relation to Carrol) has congratulated Bugatti on the conquest of the record... but says that their new car should "look good passing 270mph" when it premieres sometime around the end of the summer - and that they've been working on it since they first took the title away from Bugatti in 2007.

It's not over yet. :D
Everyone mentions that slalom course because that's the only other context the SSC has been tested in (to my knowledge at least). But 1) that was a preproduction model from back when it had a supercharged GM V8 under the hood 2) I don't think anyone gives any weight to slalom times or skidpad numbers apart from the magazines that publish the numbers. Here are other R/T slalom numbers for comparison anyway:

75.9Mph Porsche 997 911 GT3 Mark II
75.8Mph Porsche 997 911 GT2
75.0Mph Saleen S7 TwinTurbo
74.7Mph Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1
74.7Mph Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR
73.4Mph Nissan GT-R R35
73.3Mph Lotus Exige S240
73.1Mph SSC Ultimate Aero TT
73.0Mph Ferrari Enzo

Agreed. The only achievement that amazed me about the Veyron SS is that VW has managed to make it even uglier than it was. I honestly didn't think that was possible!

The absurdity and uselessness of "production car" top speed competitions are quite clear in the latest TG episode, where May mentioned how the Germans waited until the air density was at its optimal to test car and how they don't even know how safe the tires are at those unknown speeds. And so it's clear that they were driving outside the known limits of the car, plain and simple. And I doubt they will do that again anytime soon, so the top speed records should read "Car chassis #### went xxx mph on this day, at this time for this many seconds." Because it's unlikely that any actually Veyron SS or Ultimate Aero TT will go anywhere near as fast as their claimed "top speed" since you will need a team of engineers on hand with laptops and weather instruments and a closed off track and a death-wish. And so the top speed records have become essentially meaningless.
The original Veyron did do it's 253mph top speed multiple times in the hands of several different drivers. But keep in mind that manufacturers tend to mess with vehicles when going for top speed records. McLaren used different gearing on the F1 that hit 241mph, Jaguar took the side mirrors off to get a higher speed on the XJ220 and I wouldn't be surprised if the records prior to those were only set going one way with a heavy tailwind ;)
 
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Interrobang

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It would have been terribly boring if Shelby SuperCars just lay down to cry and give up ... and let?s face it, that would have been pretty unamerican ...

So let the Speed-war continue! Maybe it?s the most stupid "war" ever, but at least it should keep us entertained some time ...
 

pepitko

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I've always wondered about what tyres does Ultimate Aero use. If the Veryon has bespoke tyres (that cost GBP 30k a set) and can withstand 400kmh+ for only several minutes, how can Ultimate Aero do more than that and not see its tyres explode?
 

otispunkmeyer

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depends how much downforce it makes.... if you really squash the car onto the road, then you work the tyres more.
 

pepitko

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Good point, but you need quite a lot of downforce to prevent this at that kind of speed, right?
 

narf

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Downforce is one thing, rotational speed is another. The faster you spin the tyre, the more often each bit gets compressed/decompressed. Each motion creates heat, the more motions the more heat. The faster you spin it the more it wants to bulge to the outside as well thanks to centrifugal force (yes, centrifugal - a tyre is a rotating system, so it exists there), which makes the amount of motion between compression and decompression greater, creating even more heat.

If heat is the problem then you would need to increase the diameter of the tyre to decrease the angular velocity.
 

IceBone

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But increasing the diameter also increases the force needed to rotate the tire by a power of 3.
 

narf

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But increasing the diameter also increases the force needed to rotate the tire by a power of 3.
To accelerate the tyre, maybe. When you're looking for the top speed acceleration is nice, but not required - just get a longer stretch of road. Same thing with weight, very heavy cars may still have a high top speed.
 

mpicco

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The thing with the SSC Ultimate Aero is that it looks like no normal person would have the balls to take it to top speed. Remember when James May took it for the first time, Clarkson asked him if there was any drama like when you top other supercars, they feel like they are falling apart, and he said no, it was really quiet and comfortable.
The Aero looks like one of those that would feel like falling apart at top speed. This last film where May took the Super Sport to max speed, again, it barely vibrated, albeit a big more than the other, and it looked really drama free. Any normal guy would be able to do that, but you'd need a fearless experienced test driver to top the Aero.

Just my opinion ... dont flame.
 

bartboy9891

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I've always wondered about what tyres does Ultimate Aero use. If the Veryon has bespoke tyres (that cost GBP 30k a set) and can withstand 400kmh+ for only several minutes, how can Ultimate Aero do more than that and not see its tyres explode?
The Veyron's tires have to deal with a helluva lot more weight and they are designed to withstand a blowout (of all 4 tires) at near top speed to the point where the car is still able to be controlled.

But really at that speed, tires aren't going to last very long regardless of the car they are attached to.
 

Polly

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And there we are again: People who like the Veyron like it because it's a whole new breed of car and redefines the terms in which we think automotive speed can be achieved and experienced. People who prefer the SSC like it because it's a "traditional" whacky gonna-rip-yer-head-off hypercar AND just as fast as the Veyron.


Round and round and round..
 
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