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carrera gt vs a wall

Did any of you guys see Tiff Needall's Crashes that changed racing? Its a very good program. Talks about why people go racing and what not.
 
Ben was an active member of Rennlist (www.rennlist.com) Never met him, but have read hundreds of posts from him.

It is rumored that a Ferrari pulled out of the pits in front of the C-GT and basically ran him off the head. It is also rumored that neither were wearing helmets, and that there were no corner workers, and it was a shoddily ran even by the Ferrari Owner's Club (not the Ferrari Club of America)

As far as the number of fatalities, this track is used 300+ times a year, and sees a lot of action and a lot of fast vehicles. I believe the 2 last deaths were both sport bikes, and 3 or four of them were in all out races, not DE events.


I dont know if we will ever find out ***exactly*** what happened, but if any of it had to do with a poorly run track event, that club should be held liable. A club with high speed events should always have safety in mind first, and it seems like the Ferrari Owners Club was severely lacking in that area.
 
It's an unfortunate risk of driving fast anywhere. I would question the safety precautions at the track as there should be a better and safer place to merge cars. A pitlane exit should be in a safe place...not somewhere where cars are travelling at 150mph!

It's always sad to hear about things like this. Total respect to Porsche for making such a strong car though. It really looks like the car did it's job to the best of it's ability. The shear G-Force was the damaging factor here. Our bodies are only designed to withstand 1G...not alone 30 or 50G!

Very sad that he's left a family behind. RIP :shock:
 
At first I wasn't really touched by this. But after hearing the details I come to the conclusion that he was probably also registered at 6 speed online. Read a couple of posts from a guy called ben, who had a silver Carrera GT (as well as a Challenge Stradale) and lived in southern California. Now I'm definitely a bit saddened!
:cry:

BTW, he'd probably have been much better off just hitting the other car! But of course swerving is the natural reaction, so I probably would've done the same...

cya
Oliver
 
sandor-
I dont know if we will ever find out ***exactly*** what happened, but if any of it had to do with a poorly run track event, that club should be held liable. A club with high speed events should always have safety in mind first, and it seems like the Ferrari Owners Club was severely lacking in that area.
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No one forces you to go to a track event, being at a track and driving over 100mph is a high enough risk because even pro drivers can make mistakes at speeds twice that. I dont see anyone at fault in this and It unfortunately an accident.

I do think the wall the car hit should have been like the one in 5th Gear where is can compress to absorb the impact and the car can bounce off it. Hitting a concrete wall at any speed is very dangerous, the car and passengers will absorb the hit.
 
:no: that's sad, RIP
 
!!!!! where exactly is California speedway?
I live in Irvine, California and saw a silver CGT on my way home after school one block away from my school and one block away from my house in the past few days (cant remember exactly when)

boy was I excited to see a CGT on the streets of Irvine, I feel terribly sorry and touched by both victims and wish the best to both of their families

:( R.I.P.
 
ArosaMike said:
It's an unfortunate risk of driving fast anywhere. I would question the safety precautions at the track as there should be a better and safer place to merge cars. A pitlane exit should be in a safe place...not somewhere where cars are travelling at 150mph!

It's always sad to hear about things like this. Total respect to Porsche for making such a strong car though. It really looks like the car did it's job to the best of it's ability. The shear G-Force was the damaging factor here. Our bodies are only designed to withstand 1G...not alone 30 or 50G!

Very sad that he's left a family behind. RIP :shock:
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I wouldn't say the size of the impact was the damaging factor... It would be more to do with how the car hit the wall.

People have survived 100+ G's with little or no injury.
 
Leppy said:
I wouldn't say the size of the impact was the damaging factor... It would be more to do with how the car hit the wall.People have survived 100+ G's with little or no injury.
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The way the car hits the wall fetermines the "size of the impact" (there's probably a nice word for that). The speed the car de-accelerates is the bottom line. In this case it was too fast.

The claim of 100g impact with no injury seems a little extreme. Physics teacher mentioned that the body can take up to 8g before things go wrong.

I feel like getting extreme so here goes:

100g = 980 N
Force = Mass x Acceleration
A 1 kilogram mass hitting a person's head we can take to deaccelerate in 1cm over a perid of 0.1 of a seoncd. Totally made up but you can imagine what would happen. To visualise this better just pretend a person is lying on the ground where their head cannot move. A one kilogram rock is dropped on this person's head.

Now 100g would be equal to a force of 980 N
980 = mass x (de)acceleration
980 = 1kg x 980

acceleration is the change in velocity over the change in time.

980= change in velocity / 0.1
Which lead to the change in velocity being 98ms which means assuming this mass would completely stop and not keep going through the person's head would be it would have to be travelling at 352.8 km/h to have the same affect as 100g would on a human.

Leppy I think your claim is most probably wrong, unless I messed something up here which I checked and don't think I did :p
 
100g does not equal 980N

You are right in saying that Force equals mass by accel but 100g = 980N has no mass component.

Also

Leppy said:
Did any of you guys see Tiff Needall's Crashes that changed racing? Its a very good program. Talks about why people go racing and what not.
Click to expand...

Watch that doco.

A guy in indy carts hit a wall and suffered 140+ g's and suffered a broken ankle... thats it... did not black out... did not have a headache.

My claim is correct.
 
Leppy said:
100g does not equal 980N

You are right in saying that Force equals mass by accel but 100g = 980N has no mass component.

Also

Leppy said:
Did any of you guys see Tiff Needall's Crashes that changed racing? Its a very good program. Talks about why people go racing and what not.
Click to expand...

Watch that doco.

A guy in indy carts hit a wall and suffered 140+ g's and suffered a broken ankle... thats it... did not black out... did not have a headache.

My claim is correct.
Click to expand...

Fair point I dunno whether you're right but I still think my idea was a classic. Bull a guy took 140g without blacking out.

Wikipedia said:
One often hears the term being applied to the limits that the human body can withstand without blacking out, sometimes referred to as g-loc (loc stands for loss of consciousness). A typical person can handle about 5 g (50 m/s?) before this occurs, but through the combination of special g-suits and efforts to strain muscles ?both of which act to force blood back into the brain? modern pilots can typically handle 9 g (90 m/s?). Resistance to "negative" or upward gees, which drive blood to the head, is much less; typically in the 2-3 g (20 to 30 m/s?) range the vision goes red, probably due to capillaries in the eyes bursting under the increased blood pressure.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force

I still think 100g is wrong, now 140g. This doco sounds interesting, where can I get it?
 
@scotty:
You're partially right about this. But you're saying about hitting something on someones head. The thing is, when you have an impact with a car, you take it with you whole body, not just with you head. That fact alone changes a lot of things. And also, when you drop something on someones head, you drop a mass. When decellerating this fast, you don't get a mass thrown at you. For exemple, do the same experiment, but then with something that's softer.
It's also how you hit it.

(you can correct me on all of this)

Greetz Johan
 
Leppy said:
I wouldn't say the size of the impact was the damaging factor... It would be more to do with how the car hit the wall.

People have survived 100+ G's with little or no injury.
Click to expand...

I agree that the angle of impact has a lot to do with things, but I would say you're just incredibly lucky if you walk away from experiencing 100G. The major cause of death in high G situations is the fact that the brain can't deccelerate without damage at that speed and there will be damage to the front part of the brain as it impacts the skull. There is also a high risk that brain stem will break under large force which results in instant death.

If the car stopped in about 1m from 100mph (approx 50m/s) then the decceleration would be as follows:

v^2 = u^2 + 2as

v=final velocity (0m/s)
u=inital speed (50m/s)
a=decceleration

therefore: (v^2-u^2)/(2s) = a

so, a = (0-2500)/(2) = -1250 m/s^2

This is therefore: 1250/9.81 approx = 130G

That's a lot of force. If we take an average human head weight of 4.5kg (http://danny.oz.au/anthropology/notes/human-head-weight.html) and then say that the helmet was 1kg (a light helmet I know).

F=ma so, the force on a human head experiencing a decceleration of 130G = 5.5 x 1250 almost = 7 tonnes!
 
The thing that makes rapid deceleration so dangerous is that your body is stopped by the seatbelt, but your internal organs keep moving and can be literally ripped out of place. One of the very few things I learned in Drivers Ed. We saw a few videos where the person did not have a scratch on the outside but died because their organs were torn out of place.

And my condolances to the families of the two killed. May they RIP.
 
Leppy said:
100g does not equal 980N

You are right in saying that Force equals mass by accel but 100g = 980N has no mass component.
Click to expand...

I just realised:

scotty said:
100g = 980 N
Force = Mass x Acceleration
A 1 kilogram mass hitting a person's head...
Click to expand...

100g = 1kg x a
980 = a

I think that's what I meant.

What I said was basically the same as ArosaMike I think but I was looking at the force it exert on the head.

Freerider, I was (I think) just showing what 100g means in a different way. As for this crash the passenger's head would have deaccelerated veryyyyyy quickly because his head would probably have hit the wall.
 
Yeah you guys have to realise I know all the physics behind it.

I'm 4 exams away from my engineering degree.. I did physics at school... I understand what you are saying. Stop explaining it to me.

What you also have to realise is that... the whole people blacking out at 9 G thing is... the 9 g is sustained. its not a short amount of time its 9 g for a longer period of time.


Oh and 111mph is 50m/s :p
 
the passenger (corey) was a diablo replica body maker who had ripped off a bunch of people, and thats probably where all the money came from. it's kinda ironic to see how it ends :(
 
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