carshopping with klankymen - cheap to buy, insure, fuel up & repair - and rwd??

klankymen

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M?nchen, K?nigreich Bayern
Car(s)
plastic Japanese iPod dock on wheels
OK, here's the deal. Since I live in the city, I don't need a car. I can reach everything using bike, public transport & bumming a ride from other people. I've done so fine for quite some time now, and I could surely continue to do so. But I kind of want a car. Just for fun.

So here's my question. What cars are there that are really cheap and fun. Bear in mind I'm not looking for a 599GTB, just something I can chuck around a bit without worrying too much about it breaking.

So here's a short list of what I'm looking for:
  • Cheap to buy (less than ?3000)
  • Cheap to insure (less than a Honda Jazz, ideally)
  • Cheap registration tax (this doesn't factor into the running costs as much as insurance and fuel)
  • Not a huge gas guzzler (10l/100km (24 mpg US) would be nice)
  • Doesn't break too much / I can repair it myself
  • Fun (maybe something light and nimble - maybe just something with some grunt - maybe just something really comfy - whatever ends up pushing my buttons)

I realize I may be looking for the "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" as we call it here - basically a car that's good at everything but bad at nothing - but I think it should be possible.

Since I don't need the car, practicality isn't really a concern. I'd like it to keep my dry in the rain/winter (so ariel atom is out), and it would be nice if it could transport me and two crates of beer (but even a Smart can do that). But I'm not really after a huge trunk/boot, or a many seats for my family, or something that saves baby seals. It doesn't need to have leather seats, it doesn't need sat-nav-crap, I'd be quite happy with a tape deck. I don't care how old or new it is, and I don't care what country it was built in. In fact, even speed and lightness isn't a criteria

As for the insurance/tax thing, I realize that's a very country specific thing, but as a general guideline, tax is based off displacement and emissions, and insurance seems to be utterly random - though somehow very vaguely dependent on how many people have crashed the type of car before, and how powerful it is.

I can change tires and change oil, and that's about the extent of what I've done on a car myself - but I'm a fairly technical person, and can learn that fixing stuff pretty well - assuming it's not a car loaded with computers. However I don't have a private garage - just a parking space in a shared garage.

And if I can't find any car that tickles my fancy, I just won't buy one - that's the beauty of being in the position where it's not you who needs something. Really I'm just looking for something kind of cheap that's not a shitty eurohatch like a VW Golf IV. For all I care it could be a pickup truck, a station wagon or a one-seater.

Basically what I'm looking for here is:
  • Car suggestions
  • Try to talk me out of it
  • Thanks!

PS: I can think of exactly one car that fulfills my criteria - I'm hoping there are more.
PPS: I'm sure I'm forgetting something. I'll add it when it occurs to me.
 
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Since you won't buy a new car tax will be based on displacement only, about 7?/year/100ccm? for a petrol engine so it'd be 140?/year for a 2.0l.


You said no eurohatch, but Alfa? :lol:
Most reliable car ever?
Pop-up lights FTW?
Time for a new barn?
 
Since you won't buy a new car tax will be based on displacement only, about 7?/year/100ccm? for a petrol engine so it'd be 140?/year for a 2.0l.

Actually, old cars are also based on emissions, not just displacement. For newer cars what you say is correct, but the taxation per 100ccm (not ccm^3, that would be cm^9) varies depending on your emissions standard (euro 1, euro 2, euro 3...).

You said no eurohatch, but Alfa? :lol:

Holy shit that's really cheap, insurance is a bit pricey at 926 a year, but I don't even want to think about repair costs there.

Most reliable car ever?

A V8 with 145hp? Are you sure it's not made by americans? I can't even get an insurance quote on that, it would surely be epic, although so would my petrol bills at currently 1.48? / liter.

Pop-up lights FTW?

That was the one car that occurred to me that I mentioned in the PS. It's only 550 to insure in my name, probably quite reliable being a Japanese 4banger, it's light and RWD, and it has pop-up headlamps.


I do somewhat lust for an 850 turbo, since I spent my first year of driving with a normal 850, and I did quite like the car. Insurance is a bit pricey at 926, more than I want to spend. Though of course the whole budget thing is a bit flexible - cheaper car = more to spend on insurance.

Those are one or two things I didn't even think to look for, so thanks for the suggestions! Nice and diverse, just what I was hoping for.

There's only one answer.

Dacia Sandero. :)

But kind of seriously, a Clio if you want to be dashing, or the first-generation Focus.

Steve

Those two cars pretty much bore me to death. I see a billion of them on the streets, and they're about as far away from "a car I'd lust over" as it can possibly get. I'd much prefer a Dacia Sandero 1.4MPi.

The whole idea is that I'm not after something practical or sensible, just after something I'd enjoy having, for whatever reasons that may be - either cause it's an alfa, or because it handles really well, or because it's a friggin volvo wagon with 230hp, or simply because it's something really old and rare that nobody has, and I just feel cool driving around in - whatever!

In terms of common cars, I've looked into MX5s and old 3-Series, but with the 3-Series you're simply raped to death by insurance charges, since they're typical chav cars around here - not to mention it's hard to find one that hasn't been riced.

EDIT: I'm not trying to say I won't buy a hatchback, anything that tickles my fancy is fine, but most hatchbacks I see around here are about as exciting as soggy vegetables - opel corsas, renault clios, ford fiestas, vw polos. More interesting than that would be a smart - simply because it's kinda funky, even if it's a silly toy car.
 
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Actually, old cars are also based on emissions, not just displacement.

Forgot to mention, the Range is Euro1 - didn't think I'd find any with that or worse, so for that the tax actually does increase to 11?/100cc/year. On the power, it's about half the displacement of an American V8 :lol:
 
Forgot to mention, the Range is Euro1 - didn't think I'd find any with that or worse, so for that the tax actually does increase to 11?/100cc/year. On the power, it's about half the displacement of an American V8 :lol:

Well, on a 3.9 liter V8, that works out to about 430 euros a year - not exactly cheap - the MX-5 is 108.
 
Can we get a sticky thread that says all "what should I buy" threads get the de facto answer of a Miata?










edit: Not that I disagree on the Miata.
 
I'm in a very similar position to yourself (i.e. don't need a car, but would want something fun), so I looked around for myself some time ago. And, especially if you want RWD, the MX5 really is pretty much alone out there.

In terms of common cars, I've looked into MX5s and old 3-Series, but with the 3-Series you're simply raped to death by insurance charges, since they're typical chav cars around here - not to mention it's hard to find one that hasn't been riced.

Have you looked into older Mercs? 190E et al?

Something kind of unique with weird carpets and expired T?V?

IMO "expired T?V" = AVOID. It'll most likely have some very costly repairs needed to pass.
 
I thought "MX-5" before even reading the post. Apart from this, if you're in the mood for a project car, get a Capri. If you want MADNESS, i know someone who has a V8 Capri stored away in a barn.
 
190E seems to tick all your boxes. It's not slow, above average handling, pretty damn confortable, most of it is simple tech that you can fix yourself, they're known to be reliable, and my 2.0l model managed 10l/100km only if I drove it faster than 170kph, under that it was between 8.5 and 9.5.
 
So, first off, thanks for all the answers. I shall try to address them all individually.

Maybe a C124 that's been sideswiped?

Something kind of unique with weird carpets and expired T?V?

Transporter fantasy?

E34s?
Wagon with crappy wheels

Geez, all I can find is crap. I'll second a Miata.

Well, apart from the No-T?V one, which I'd not even touch with a 10 foot pole, those are all pretty nice cars (I've always severely lusted after an E38, but the E32 comes pretty close), though the insurance on all of em is pretty high - nearly 1 grand for me. Not to mention I'd be quite worried about the hidden costs that come with a 2 grand seven series.

Can we get a sticky thread that says all "what should I buy" threads get the de facto answer of a Miata?

My own de facto answer to this question, before even making the thread, was already the NA Miata. But I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something awesome.

e34 no doubt!*


* i am not biased in any way or form!

While I'd love an older BMW, they're quite pricy to insure (often driven by chavs/immigrant youths, so the premiums are quite high - except for like the really old BMWs, they're cheaper to insure, but more expensive to buy).

Have you looked into older Mercs? 190E et al?

190E seems to tick all your boxes. It's not slow, above average handling, pretty damn confortable, most of it is simple tech that you can fix yourself, they're known to be reliable, and my 2.0l model managed 10l/100km only if I drove it faster than 170kph, under that it was between 8.5 and 9.5.

True, the 190E is definitely a consideration, even though I don't like its looks particularly. 650 to insure is alright, I could probably justify that much. Though, if I drove around in one of those, I'd feel the need to open up a D?ner Kebab Stand, because that just seems to go with the image. :D :lol:

I thought "MX-5" before even reading the post. Apart from this, if you're in the mood for a project car, get a Capri. If you want MADNESS, i know someone who has a V8 Capri stored away in a barn.

Finding a Capri for under 3 grand that's even remotely near running might be tricky. I'm willing to tinker around, but I only have so many options. Don't have a trailer for towing the car to and from T?V and the like. Something that runs in a rudimentary way would be nice.

Get an MX-5 if you can fit in it (with the roof closed).

That is a valid concern. I'm 1.83m tall (which, to you yanks, is pretty much exactly 6 terminal portions of a limb which bears weight and allows locomotion), so I don't think it's too big a deal. I've sat in the NC MX-5 just fine, but will have to go find an NA to try that out.

So anyways, assuming MX-5 is the best option (which I'm still not 100% convinced of, I'm sure I'm missing something), what are the caveats with the NA MX-5? Is one that sells for 2 grand going to be any good? That's pretty much one of the cheapest MX-5s out there, will it be a nightmare? What's there to look out for? Any spots that rust? Any parts that break typically? Any hidden costs?

Also, I figure with convertibles, the idea is the same as with motorcycles - buy in november/december, they'll be cheapest there. Right?

EDIT: This one snuck in while I was posting:

Come on, you know you want a classic BMW.

Just look at her.

Well, 30XXX postal code is about as far away as it can get from 80XXX postal code, but hot damn, do want!!
I was looking for one of those, but couldn't find one around here in my budget. I would certainly love one of those, but it's quite hard to find unverbastelte 3 series, since they've all been t?rkifiziert, and come with (I swear I've seen one dealer named mustafa somethingoranother advertise that one of his cars came with this as a special feature) "Fahrwerk". :lol:

Perhaps even better than an old 316 would be a very early E30, that's unverbastelt, and can get H plates in a year or two, though those seem to be quite rare and pricey - Dr Grip seems to know a lot about that kind of thing - is this in any way a reasonable option?

Second EDIT:
Furthermore, I really, really would like one of these, and I'm quite surprised Spectre hasn't been in here telling me to get one of them. The ?242 / year of tax I could live with, for sure, but the grand for insurance kind of turns me off :(
 
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Perhaps even better than an old 316 would be a very early E30, that's unverbastelt, and can get H plates in a year or two, though those seem to be quite rare and pricey - Dr Grip seems to know a lot about that kind of thing - is this in any way a reasonable option?

I don't know shit about pricing for older BMWs, but i learnt more about H-Plate (?23) certifiations than i ever wanted to learn.

First things first:
-If you got a first vehicle, insurance for a classic is cheap and still without any limitations on mileage, only being allowed to use it for classic-related events or something. Haftpflicht and Vollkasko combined is around 200 bucks a year for the Kadett (which will be insured on my father's name due to me not having another car).
-Tax is cheap, too.
-Getting the certificate depends on the car being erhaltenswert ("worth keeping"). This is determined by two factors: The state of the car, both in being as stock as possible and in good nick and the car being rare enough. The second one could be tricky with the E30, i guess, especially as there is no hard definition of being rare. It is known that some T?V stations refuse to issue ?23 certificates for VW Beetles because there are just too many of them still around to make them erhaltenswert. Word of mouth is important here - people dealing with T?V certifications on a daily basis like backyard tuning enthusiasts needing their ultra-low ride height approved, used-car dealers or classic car enthusiasts usually know which T?V stations (and which employees there) have a soft spot for special projects and let you get away with more than others.

The first comment i got on the Kadett failing T?V when having a beer with my wrenching buddies last night was "I told you to go to our T?V guy, he'd have let you through without a hassle, just having you promise to fix it up right afterwards!"

'Nuff said.

EDIT: Here's the T?V guideline for ?23-certification. They omit the "rarity" bit, but it's there.

EDIT 2: The ?23 certification costs around 125 bucks and includes a standard T?V/AU examination. If you fail that, the ?23 certification also fails (see: Kadett).
 
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I don't know shit about pricing for older BMWs, but i learnt more about H-Plate (?23) certifiations than i ever wanted to learn.

First things first:
-If you got a first vehicle, insurance for a classic is cheap and still without any limitations on mileage, only being allowed to use it for classic-related events or something. Haftpflicht and Vollkasko combined is around 200 bucks a year for the Kadett (which will be insured on my father's name due to me not having another car).
-Tax is cheap, too.
-Getting the certificate depends on the car being erhaltenswert ("worth keeping"). This is determined by two factors: The state of the car, both in being as stock as possible and in good nick and the car being rare enough. The second one could be tricky with the E30, i guess, especially as there is no hard definition of being rare. It is known that some T?V stations refuse to issue ?23 certificates for VW Beetles because there are just too many of them still around to make them erhaltenswert. Word of mouth is important here - people dealing with T?V certifications on a daily basis like backyard tuning enthusiasts needing their ultra-low ride height approved, used-car dealers or classic car enthusiasts usually know which T?V stations (and which employees there) have a soft spot for special projects and let you get away with more than others.

The first comment i got on the Kadett failing T?V when having a beer with my wrenching buddies last night was "I told you to go to our T?V guy, he'd have let you through without a hassle, just having you promise to fix it up right afterwards!"

'Nuff said.

Thanks for that info! One question, why do you mention it being registered to your father because you don't have another car - is it impossible to have an H-plate as an Erstwagen?

As for the E30, I think if you find an E30 that's as stock as possible, that's quite rare (at least that's the impression I get looking around on the street, and on car sales sites). Never know for sure of course.

As for the "only used for special events", does anybody give a shit? Is there a way to get H-plates that you can drive all the time? Not that I want this as a daily driver anyways.

I had another question for you, but I forgot what it was while posting, and have been trying to think of it for the past 10 minutes. Whatever, I'll edit it in later.
 
Maybe something like this :dunno:
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...dsAsString=&lang=de&id=106798663&pageNumber=1

Certainly a little out of the ordinary with it's odd styling and fun little details like the key going between the seats. It will probably even move decently fast if you find a Turbo model.

Cons would be a car within your budget would have a trillion km on it, and maybe be somewhat unreliable.

Insurrance could also be "interesting" ?
 
True, the 190E is definitely a consideration, even though I don't like its looks particularly. 650 to insure is alright, I could probably justify that much. Though, if I drove around in one of those, I'd feel the need to open up a D?ner Kebab Stand, because that just seems to go with the image. :D :lol:

That part is due to personal taste indeed. But I managed to drive one for more than 30 months without ever feeling the need to start my own D?ner shop, nor did I ever feel inclined to grow a mullet :p

EDIT: PS: Mine is still for sale, maybe we can strike a deal for some FG history to change hands :p
 
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