Cash for Clunkers lives on: Senate passes $2B refill of popular program

Aiolos

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
861
Car(s)
2005 Toyota Rav4 :-/ (Mom's)
Not sure if this should just go in the "suspended" thread, but I guess this is different? Mods you can join them if you think this is inappropriate.

Cash for Clunkers lives on: Senate passes $2B refill of popular program

Source: Autoblog

Cash for Clunkers lives on. The Senate passed a $2 billion extension late tonight with a vote of 60/37, giving customers the opportunity to purchase about 500,000 more vehicles through the program. The Obama administration estimates that most or all of the original $1 billion was spent in a matter of only ten days and it's expected the additional $2 billion will only last through Labor Day.

Before voting on the bill, several amendments to the program were shot down. One amendment, which sought to relegate the program only to lower and middle income families, was denied with a vote of 65/32. Another amendment to make up the $2 billion by cutting from other programs lost by a 51/46 vote.

So far, Detroit automakers have received the majority of C4C deals, with 45.3% of overall sales, followed by Japanese automakers who've amassed 36.5% of the market. General Motors has the highest overall share of C4C transactions, at 18.7%, followed by Toyota at 17.9%. The majority of C4C purchases have received the full $4,500 subsidy, which requires a vehicle to achieve at least ten mpg better fuel economy than the scrapped clunker. The $3,500 subsidy is for vehicles that have a fuel economy improvement of four-to-nine mpg. The Obama administration estimates that the average fuel economy improvement under the C4C program has improved by 61%, saving the average consumer $700 - $1,000 in fuel over the life of the vehicle.
 

Eunos_Cosmo

Forum Addict
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,968
Location
Oakland
Car(s)
'84 Mazda RX7, '12 Mazda 2, '99 Porsche Boxster
$700-1000 over the life of the vehicle....that is definitely worth it....
 

maxtortheone

Chicken Fiddler
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
11,891
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Car(s)
2006 Renault Clio 1.4 16V
So buying a Hyundai Accent hatchback which cost $9,995 with your trade-in car's value of ,let's say $4,500, you will still have spent $4,495. But it's okay because if you keep your Accent for 25-30 years you'll save $1000. Seems like a win-win situation to me!
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
So buying a Hyundai Accent hatchback which cost $9,995 with your trade-in car's value of ,let's say $4,500, you will still have spent $4,495. But it's okay because if you keep your Accent for 25-30 years you'll save $1000. Seems like a win-win situation to me!
Well it makes sense if your car is shit and is about to die on you.
 

sonza68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
1,087
Location
Florissant, MO, US
Car(s)
'00 Cougar/'07 Explorer
The fuel savings is obviously dependant on the clunker and the new car. Trading my Lincoln for an Accent would drop my fuel bill about $500 a year.
 
Last edited:

Spectre

The Deported
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
36,856
Location
Dallas, Texas
Car(s)
00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
The fuel savings is obviously dependant on the clunker and the new car. Trading my Lincoln for an Accent would drop my fuel bill about $500 a year.
But paying for the new car would probably wipe that 'savings' out.
 

Spectre

The Deported
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
36,856
Location
Dallas, Texas
Car(s)
00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
I suppose people doing the simplest math is too much to ask for...
Yup.

Let's use the example maxtor just proposed: A Hyundai Accent that you somehow got out the door with for a total of $4,495. And that you somehow didn't have to pay taxes, fees, or anything else.

Using that $4,495 amount as the base amount for a 5 year car loan at 8% interest, that makes the monthly payment $91.14.

Taking sonza's Lincoln as the example 'clunker' here and using the EPA estimated fuel economy, here's how the numbers work out.

Annual cost of Lincoln, $0 (already paid off)
Annual cost of Lincoln's fuel, assuming it gets the EPA calculated 18mpg combined and you drive the average 15K per year - plus that gas goes up to $5 per gallon (worst case scenario): $4166.67
Total annual base cost: $4166.67


Annual cost of Accent, $1093.68
Annual cost of Accent's fuel, assuming it gets the EPA calculated 18mpg combined and you drive the average 15K per year - plus that gas goes up to $5 per gallon (worst case scenario): $2500
Total annual base cost: $3593.68
Now, add to that the insurance upcharge for full coverage on a yearly basis (about $500/year average) which the bank will require since you haven't paid the thing off yet, and you're at $4093.68.

$4166.67 - $4093.68 = $72.99.

Why would you bother trading it in for a mere $73/year savings? Said savings would be wiped out in Texas by the taxes and fees you had to pay.
 

thevictor390

Teen Wankeler
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
11,872
Location
Massachusetts
Car(s)
'17 Mazda MX-5 RF, '89 Toyota Blizzard SX5
Well, on top of the savings you do get a new car. Surely that's worth something. But I agree that in most cases it doesn't make financial sense.
 

Labcoatguy

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
13,810
Location
Boston, MA, USA
Car(s)
#Jaguar #XKR, #Saab #9-3
A warranty and repair costs. For those who use the car as just a daily driver, that is enough to push them into the decision psychologically, if not rationally.
 

thevictor390

Teen Wankeler
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
11,872
Location
Massachusetts
Car(s)
'17 Mazda MX-5 RF, '89 Toyota Blizzard SX5
A warranty and repair costs. For those who use the car as just a daily driver, that is enough to push them into the decision psychologically, if not rationally.
That's pretty much exactly why I am look for cars less than 3 years old. I just like the idea of not dreading a trip to the mechanic. If I really wanted to I could spend more money repairing my car right now than it is worth.
 

BlaRo

Little Nudger
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
18,177
Location
New England
Car(s)
Moto Guzzi V7 Special, Fiat 500 1957 Edition
So buying a Hyundai Accent hatchback which cost $9,995 with your trade-in car's value of ,let's say $4,500, you will still have spent $4,495. But it's okay because if you keep your Accent for 25-30 years you'll save $1000. Seems like a win-win situation to me!
If you drive a Hyundai Accent for 30 years then you've died already.

Can't a mod combine all these C4C threads? There's 5 of them and it's getting slightly annoying.
 

tigger

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
5,737
Car(s)
'88 Vic Wagon, '92 Honda VFR
I suppose people doing the simplest math is too much to ask for...
I think this is one area where we gearheads are actually looking at car buying logically :lol:. Everyone else just "has to keep up with the Joneses." If they can get $4,500 to trade in their 10 year old Explorer, well that's $4,500 towards the new cool suburban ride: a hybrid.

If you drive a Hyundai Accent for 30 years then you've died already.
Died inside, amirite? :p

I second the motion for one thread for all this CfC mess. One thread to rule them all.

/damn what's in this coffee?
 

lv2xlr8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
523
Location
Chicago Burbs
Car(s)
99 Mistubishi Galant
Well it makes sense if your car is shit and is about to die on you.
x2. I think they should change there goal. It works more for people who were planning on buying a car anyway because that person was already expecting a new expense.

I mean technically speaking you could "flip" the cars. Trade in your clunker, buy a new car and then sell it. I don't see anywhere where it says that you must keep the car for a certain period of time. (correct me if I'm wrong) You'd have to calculate the loan, the TTL but overall especially with some of the deals that manufacturers are providing on top of the 3500-4500, it could be worthwhile.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,973
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
x2. I think they should change there goal. It works more for people who were planning on buying a car anyway because that person was already expecting a new expense.

I mean technically speaking you could "flip" the cars. Trade in your clunker, buy a new car and then sell it. I don't see anywhere where it says that you must keep the car for a certain period of time. (correct me if I'm wrong) You'd have to calculate the loan, the TTL but overall especially with some of the deals that manufacturers are providing on top of the 3500-4500, it could be worthwhile.
Yep,

I have a co worker with a crap Chevy (cant remember what it is) that has paint literally comming off of it and he paid 2K for it. Now he can get 4500 trade in for it towards a new car, his not a petrol head by any means so he'd be getting something like a Versa just to commute every day. It makes sense for him and his car is crap regardless :D
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,304
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
I wish it wasn't limited to gas guzzlers though. My mom could seriously use this but the PT gets up to 28 MPG :(
 

maxtortheone

Chicken Fiddler
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
11,891
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Car(s)
2006 Renault Clio 1.4 16V
http://jalopnik.com/5332351/cash-for-clunkers-program-actually-benefiting-truck-crossover-sales/gallery/

Jalopnik said:
Cash For Clunkers Program Actually Benefiting Truck, Crossover Sales
By Matt Hardigree, 1:45 PM on Fri Aug 7 2009

The NHTSA list of the most purchased cars under the Cash For Clunkers programs favors cars. But if you look at it by model, and not by trim, trucks and crossovers are the true winners.

The original version of the list separated each vehicle by powertrain and configuration. This favors cars. For example, the Ford Escape is actually six different vehicles under this system (I4 FWD, V6 FWD, I4 AWD, V6 AWD, Hybrid FWD, Hybrid AWD). Vehicles like the Ford Focus and Chevy Cobalt are all FWD and have typically no more than one or two engines.

The folks at Edmunds.com put together the list with all the variations combined. The list puts the Ford Escape up top and gives eight-of-the-ten most sold vehicles to the not-so-Big Three with four SUV/trucks in the top ten. This still conforms to our math, which showed more people using the $4,500 voucher, but it just means people are trading in for trucks with the full 2 or 5 MPG improvement.
 

bartboy9891

I'm not Moe
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
9,123
Yup.

Let's use the example maxtor just proposed: A Hyundai Accent that you somehow got out the door with for a total of $4,495. And that you somehow didn't have to pay taxes, fees, or anything else.

Using that $4,495 amount as the base amount for a 5 year car loan at 8% interest, that makes the monthly payment $91.14.

Taking sonza's Lincoln as the example 'clunker' here and using the EPA estimated fuel economy, here's how the numbers work out.

Annual cost of Lincoln, $0 (already paid off)
Annual cost of Lincoln's fuel, assuming it gets the EPA calculated 18mpg combined and you drive the average 15K per year - plus that gas goes up to $5 per gallon (worst case scenario): $4166.67
Total annual base cost: $4166.67


Annual cost of Accent, $1093.68
Annual cost of Accent's fuel, assuming it gets the EPA calculated 18mpg combined and you drive the average 15K per year - plus that gas goes up to $5 per gallon (worst case scenario): $2500
Total annual base cost: $3593.68
Now, add to that the insurance upcharge for full coverage on a yearly basis (about $500/year average) which the bank will require since you haven't paid the thing off yet, and you're at $4093.68.

$4166.67 - $4093.68 = $72.99.

Why would you bother trading it in for a mere $73/year savings? Said savings would be wiped out in Texas by the taxes and fees you had to pay.
While this is true, the plan isn't too bad if you've got an older car with poor mpg you want/need to get rid of. If our Grand Am qualified, we'd have parted ways with it instantly. Unfortunately, it's managing to match or beat it's claimed mileage.
 

pfrocker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
2,439
Location
San Francisco, California, USA
Well my dad needed a new car for his construction business to supply sheet rock. So he put his 1980 Dodge Van for the clunkers program (it's in a real bad shape and don't think we could have found a buyer, blue book said $1,500) and got a 2009 Ford F-150 for it. What's funny was that we bought that van used for $4,500, so we used that van for free. The price was $33,000, but with the program and some negotiations we brought the price down to $23,000. Plus he will use this car daily, so he will sell his other daily driver, a 2000 Toyota Camry. It's a pretty great deal and my dad took me in it for a ride, man that V8 is awesome! I'm starting to sound like a redneck, sorry.
 

Topgearfanatic

is a Queen
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
6,353
Location
MA
Car(s)
2002 Audi A4 1.8t
At least he is using the truck correctly and not just using the truck as a compensation.
 
Top