Clarkson bashing the Mustang

haaha thers TWO topics goin on in the same thread...this is awesome.... why american cars are made less better thn european cars????? its cuz they wanna keep the prices low... simple... nd by keeping prices low u sacrifice luxury, quality, performance and aesthetics of cars.... and honestly ive seen the chevy sedans of late...and they look like theyve been designed by a kid...so i guess they are also cutting costs in the design department too
 
unfortunately I lack the attention span to read through this whole thread so I will repeat my question from page 2..

Why are imported European cars so much cheaper to buy in the US than overseas in a country like the UK?

Why is a BMW 330i 40k USD in the US, and however much in GBP in the UK? They are built in Germany so shouldn't shipping be less to the UK? Anyone know?
 
^ Market forces - BMW (and every other maker) will charge the price the market will bear. Volume also comes into it.

Cars are cheap in America, so BMW (and everyone else) has to charge a lower price to make the sales. It's also possible they're selling more cars in the US than elsewhere, so they can make a lower profit per vehicle but have the extra volume they sell make up for that. Of course the flip side of that is if a maker can get away with charging a high price without affecting their sales then of course that's what they'll do.

It's the same with the Holden Monaro / Pontiac GTO - it's cheaper in America than it is in Australia - even though it's built here and then shipped to the states.
 
fbc said:
^ Market forces - BMW (and every other maker) will charge the price the market will bear. Volume also comes into it.

Cars are cheap in America, so BMW (and everyone else) has to charge a lower price to make the sales. It's also possible they're selling more cars in the US than elsewhere, so they can make a lower profit per vehicle but have the extra volume they sell make up for that. Of course the flip side of that is if a maker can get away with charging a high price without affecting their sales then of course that's what they'll do.

It's the same with the Holden Monaro / Pontiac GTO - it's cheaper in America than it is in Australia - even though it's built here and then shipped to the states.

That's what I figured, so regardless of what we think of domestics..we should thank the big 3 and probably Honda/Toyota/Nissan for helping make upscale European imports so affordable :)
 
freakster_991 said:
haaha thers TWO topics goin on in the same thread...this is awesome.... why american cars are made less better thn european cars????? its cuz they wanna keep the prices low... simple... nd by keeping prices low u sacrifice luxury, quality, performance and aesthetics of cars.... and honestly ive seen the chevy sedans of late...and they look like theyve been designed by a kid...so i guess they are also cutting costs in the design department too


Oh. Man, you could have saved us a lot of time if you had just come along sooner.

:whistle:
 
zfzfrost said:
fbc said:
^ Market forces - BMW (and every other maker) will charge the price the market will bear. Volume also comes into it.

Cars are cheap in America, so BMW (and everyone else) has to charge a lower price to make the sales. It's also possible they're selling more cars in the US than elsewhere, so they can make a lower profit per vehicle but have the extra volume they sell make up for that. Of course the flip side of that is if a maker can get away with charging a high price without affecting their sales then of course that's what they'll do.

It's the same with the Holden Monaro / Pontiac GTO - it's cheaper in America than it is in Australia - even though it's built here and then shipped to the states.

That's what I figured, so regardless of what we think of domestics..we should thank the big 3 and probably Honda/Toyota/Nissan for helping make upscale European imports so affordable :)

It's not market forces. It's simply because import taxes in the UK are ridiculously high. It's the same deal in Japan.
In the Japanese market, imported cars costs twice as much as those made domestically. A 330i would cost 60.000USD in Japan while an Altezza (IS350) would be 30.000USD. Even if they are twice as expensive, imports are VERY popular in Japan. (which should be no surprise)

Taxes drive the auto prices up--not "market forces."

BlaRo said:
The emotional aspect of why beautiful girls are better than ugly ones IS the entire argument. There's no rational reason why beautiful girls are better than ugly girls; no complex math formula or scientific experiments.

That's the biggest piece of bologne you've presented to me so far. What kind of male would argue that a better looking girl isn't better than an ugly one? There is a rational reason and a perfect explanation for this--rich men generally get better looking women. If you need figures, go look at the numerous scientific studies on this subject. It's all been researched for those who doubt it.

I give up. You guys don't get my analogy because you settle for mediocre girls in the first place.

gtrietsc said:
So, are you asking us to admit that expensive sports cars are desirable? Did we say they weren't?
If you include 94Camaro into "we" then no. He made you all look like some blindly patriotic idiots. People joining his bandwagon all looked a bit out of touch. Nobody even bothered to post an arguement against me! You were too busy trying to get back at me because I offended you. :roll:

gtrietsc said:
BTW, asking who would rather buy a Mustang or SRT-4 when they could be driving around in Porsches or Ferraris makes you look *really* out of touch with the average American. But I see you live in Cali, so no big surprise there.
Just because my statements offended you doesn't mean you have to take cheap shots at me personally. What did you want me to respond with?
"I see you live in Texas, so no big surprised that you are completely out of touch with a classy and cultured lifestyle!"

Seriously, why was it easy to accept freakster's post (which had the same content as mine) but you give me a hard time?
Oh, I forgot that I'd hurt your feelings. It's hard to react in a logical manner when you're feeling so emotional.
 
Z Draci said:
zfzfrost said:
fbc said:
^ Market forces - BMW (and every other maker) will charge the price the market will bear. Volume also comes into it.

Cars are cheap in America, so BMW (and everyone else) has to charge a lower price to make the sales. It's also possible they're selling more cars in the US than elsewhere, so they can make a lower profit per vehicle but have the extra volume they sell make up for that. Of course the flip side of that is if a maker can get away with charging a high price without affecting their sales then of course that's what they'll do.

It's the same with the Holden Monaro / Pontiac GTO - it's cheaper in America than it is in Australia - even though it's built here and then shipped to the states.

That's what I figured, so regardless of what we think of domestics..we should thank the big 3 and probably Honda/Toyota/Nissan for helping make upscale European imports so affordable :)

It's not market forces. It's simply because import taxes in the UK are ridiculously high. It's the same deal in Japan.
In the Japanese market, imported cars costs twice as much as those made domestically. A 330i would cost 60.000USD in Japan while an Altezza (IS350) would be 30.000USD. Even if they are twice as expensive, imports are VERY popular in Japan. (which should be no surprise)

Taxes drive the auto prices up--not "market forces."

Okay, forgive me, I generalised. Import duties do play a part. But my other example stands - the Monaro is more expensive in Australia than it is in America - that's got nothing to do with taxes. That's purely down to the price in the US being determined by what they could sell the car for there.

In reality it's a mix of both market forces and the duties - some examples of price differences are due to market forces, some are due to duties, some are a combination.

BTW - your analogy of ugly females is doing your argument no good. I agree with your sentiments about American cars, but that analogy is borderline offensive and you're coming off as being arrogant and shallow as a result. That's meant as friendly advice, not criticism.
 
fbc said:
Z Draci said:
zfzfrost said:
fbc said:
^ Market forces - BMW (and every other maker) will charge the price the market will bear. Volume also comes into it.

Cars are cheap in America, so BMW (and everyone else) has to charge a lower price to make the sales. It's also possible they're selling more cars in the US than elsewhere, so they can make a lower profit per vehicle but have the extra volume they sell make up for that. Of course the flip side of that is if a maker can get away with charging a high price without affecting their sales then of course that's what they'll do.

It's the same with the Holden Monaro / Pontiac GTO - it's cheaper in America than it is in Australia - even though it's built here and then shipped to the states.

That's what I figured, so regardless of what we think of domestics..we should thank the big 3 and probably Honda/Toyota/Nissan for helping make upscale European imports so affordable :)

It's not market forces. It's simply because import taxes in the UK are ridiculously high. It's the same deal in Japan.
In the Japanese market, imported cars costs twice as much as those made domestically. A 330i would cost 60.000USD in Japan while an Altezza (IS350) would be 30.000USD. Even if they are twice as expensive, imports are VERY popular in Japan. (which should be no surprise)

Taxes drive the auto prices up--not "market forces."

Okay, forgive me, I generalised. Import duties do play a part. But my other example stands - the Monaro is more expensive in Australia than it is in America - that's got nothing to do with taxes. That's purely down to the price in the US being determined by what they could sell the car for there.

In reality it's a mix of both market forces and the duties - some examples of price differences are due to market forces, some are due to duties, some are a combination.

You two know that there are NO import duties inside the EU? So there are no import taxes added to cars being produced inside the EU as long as they stay there.
So you got your argument wrong there ;) Make something new up for the UK market :bangin:
 
hajj said:
fbc said:
Z Draci said:
zfzfrost said:
fbc said:
^ Market forces - BMW (and every other maker) will charge the price the market will bear. Volume also comes into it.

Cars are cheap in America, so BMW (and everyone else) has to charge a lower price to make the sales. It's also possible they're selling more cars in the US than elsewhere, so they can make a lower profit per vehicle but have the extra volume they sell make up for that. Of course the flip side of that is if a maker can get away with charging a high price without affecting their sales then of course that's what they'll do.

It's the same with the Holden Monaro / Pontiac GTO - it's cheaper in America than it is in Australia - even though it's built here and then shipped to the states.

That's what I figured, so regardless of what we think of domestics..we should thank the big 3 and probably Honda/Toyota/Nissan for helping make upscale European imports so affordable :)

It's not market forces. It's simply because import taxes in the UK are ridiculously high. It's the same deal in Japan.
In the Japanese market, imported cars costs twice as much as those made domestically. A 330i would cost 60.000USD in Japan while an Altezza (IS350) would be 30.000USD. Even if they are twice as expensive, imports are VERY popular in Japan. (which should be no surprise)

Taxes drive the auto prices up--not "market forces."

Okay, forgive me, I generalised. Import duties do play a part. But my other example stands - the Monaro is more expensive in Australia than it is in America - that's got nothing to do with taxes. That's purely down to the price in the US being determined by what they could sell the car for there.

In reality it's a mix of both market forces and the duties - some examples of price differences are due to market forces, some are due to duties, some are a combination.

You two know that there are NO import duties inside the EU? So there are no import taxes added to cars being produced inside the EU as long as they stay there.
So you got your argument wrong there ;) Make something new up for the UK market :bangin:

I didn't actually know that, but I suppose that's part of the point of the EU. That's the exact point I was trying to make in that second paragraph to show that taxes do play a part in some markets, but not all - but reading it back it's not really clear. In some countries it's market forces (so clearly in the UK BMW is able to get away with charging a higher price - somewhat like my example of the Monaro but in reverse), in other countries import duties also play a part.

Though my answer wasn't addressing the UK vs US example specifically, I guess I was spot-on with my first post then (considering the original question was about UK vs US prices) :). So don't be smilie bangin me :p j/k.
 
Yes true your first post was correct ;) But the bangin smilie was more for Z Draci anyway. He just wrote total bullsh*t about the UK's import-taxes;)
 
hajj said:
Yes true your first post was correct ;) But the bangin smilie was more for Z Draci anyway. He just wrote total bullsh*t about the UK's import-taxes;)

Cool - I thought so :) (about the smilie)
 
Z Draci said:
BlaRo said:
The emotional aspect of why beautiful girls are better than ugly ones IS the entire argument. There's no rational reason why beautiful girls are better than ugly girls; no complex math formula or scientific experiments.

That's the biggest piece of bologne you've presented to me so far. What kind of male would argue that a better looking girl isn't better than an ugly one? There is a rational reason and a perfect explanation for this--rich men generally get better looking women. If you need figures, go look at the numerous scientific studies on this subject. It's all been researched for those who doubt it.
Is there no emotion involved in comparing beautiful girls to ugly girls? Hell, a rich man could get an ugly girl if he wanted to, because he's rich. But he instinctively chooses the beautiful girl instead through emotion. He's not sitting there calculating physical beauty and Golden Ratios and facial balance porportions in a comically rational manner. Do you get it now?

So what's this, three flame wars in one topic?
 
Z Draci said:
BlaRo said:
The emotional aspect of why beautiful girls are better than ugly ones IS the entire argument. There's no rational reason why beautiful girls are better than ugly girls; no complex math formula or scientific experiments.

That's the biggest piece of bologne you've presented to me so far. What kind of male would argue that a better looking girl isn't better than an ugly one? There is a rational reason and a perfect explanation for this--rich men generally get better looking women. If you need figures, go look at the numerous scientific studies on this subject. It's all been researched for those who doubt it.

I give up. You guys don't get my analogy because you settle for mediocre girls in the first place.

No, we don't get your analogy because it's flawed. Why? There are a lot of "maintenence" issues that come with dating supermodels. For instance you could dating Kate Moss, but how much coke would be required to keep her around? I don't care how hot the woman is, if she is just around you because you are rich, the word for that is "whore". Or prostitute, if you prefer.

Just come up with a real analogy...

BTW, my Cali comment wasnt a personal attack. You really do seem out of touch with the average American, and that seems pretty typical of the "glitterati" that live on the West Coast. But if it offends you, consider it withdrawn.

This has got to be the furthest OT a thread has ever gotten...
 
Z Draci said:
The whole point of my women and car arguement is to make clear to you dumbasses how much you're praising mediocrisy! I am not trying to make a statement about myself as much as I'm trying to make one against you.
In saying that American cars aren't bad is the same as saying a deformed girl isn't bad.
There are better girls than deformed ones. There are better cars than American ones.
You guys are trying to over-analyse a very simple concept.
I continue to ask why an ugly girl is so appealling over a beautiful one. (Why a mediocre car is more appealling than a well engineered one.) Nobody has even address this yet. You're too hung up on the emotional aspects of this analogy. Stop with the emotional personal responses and stick with the arguement.

OK. let me adjust your metaphor, before your e-penis explodes through my screen. You're relating "ugly" and "good-looking" (exterior appearances) to "poorly-made" and "well-made" cars - a fallacy in itself. A better comparison would be good-looking and ugly cars. Your metaphor makes pretty much no sense.

So, I guess, since you seem oh, so hung up on exterior appearences, let's try a different question for you.

Would you rather have the "good - looking" (By your metaphor, a European car) woman who is high-maintenance, rather boring, and is less than stellar in the sack? Or would you rather have a not quite as good looking, but low maintenance woman (American car), who is fun to be with, and a tiger in bed?

What I'm trying to get across is that though you refuse to accept it, what really counts is satisfaction. If you'd rather have a good looking gal that's about as deep as a puddle in July, you go right ahead.
:lol:

"Two summers ago, I took a vacation in England, and while I was there I rented a manual Vectra."
Try going to Germany and renting a Porsche. At the level you are on, I'm not surprised that you think American cars aren't bad.
A Vectra!?!?! You gotta be kidding me . . . :lol:

:oops: You didn't read the thread, did you? Nope!

What you missed out on was flyingfridge asking me to compare the bread-and-butter cars of Europe and America. In fact, he even listed the Astra as an example. The Vectra is pretty close, which makes for a valid comparison.

Yeesh, at least read the goddamn thread before you start spouting off. :bangin:

And, BTW, enough with the personal attacks. You refer to the "level" I'm on, which leads me to believe you are either a) an elitist prick, or b) have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Unfortunately, you've made yourself out to be both.

You drive a 35 year old Japanese car worth about 5 grand, and somehow you assume you're "on a different level" than me? :lol: I'd be mildly insulted if it wasn't so laughable.

Oh, another thing. You drive that 35-year old car, yet you say you're "in the market" for a $70,000 Z06? Something just isn't adding up here. I mean, if you're going to lie on the Internet, make it believable.
 
BerserkerCatSplat said:
You drive a 35 year old Japanese car worth about 5 grand, and somehow you assume you're "on a different level" than me? :lol: I'd be mildly insulted if it wasn't so laughable.

Oh, another thing. You drive that 35-year old car, yet you say you're "in the market" for a $70,000 Z06? Something just isn't adding up here. I mean, if you're going to lie on the Internet, make it believable.

Or a Vantage. I am wondering the same thing. Do your friends at the country club laugh at your ancient Japanese car? :)
 
I read through this ENTIRE thread just now, but it progressively made me more confused as I kept reading. It killed some time quite nicely, though.
 
gtrietsc said:
BerserkerCatSplat said:
You drive a 35 year old Japanese car worth about 5 grand, and somehow you assume you're "on a different level" than me? :lol: I'd be mildly insulted if it wasn't so laughable.

Oh, another thing. You drive that 35-year old car, yet you say you're "in the market" for a $70,000 Z06? Something just isn't adding up here. I mean, if you're going to lie on the Internet, make it believable.

Or a Vantage. I am wondering the same thing. Do your friends at the country club laugh at your ancient Japanese car? :)

Whoa there - leave the 240Z out of this, and have some respect for it. And guys, just because someone has money doesn't mean they can't chose to drive a cheaper, classic car.
 
ShimShimHada said:
I read through this ENTIRE thread just now, but it progressively made me more confused as I kept reading. It killed some time quite nicely, though.
My heads hurting reading this thread :cry:
 
fbc said:
Whoa there - leave the 240Z out of this, and have some respect for it. And guys, just because someone has money doesn't mean they can't chose to drive a cheaper, classic car.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Z cars, as stated previously. Where I live though, if you can afford a premium car, the only reason you would have a Z would be as a track car only. And that's in relatively unsophisticated Dallas, TX. :D
 
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