Clarkson sparks outrage by claiming Muslim women wear kinky G-strings

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This is the important part. You are trying to approach this logically. That just does not work. If a woman chooses to wear a burqua or whatever for religious reasons, there's not much someone outside that religion can say to convince her, however stupid it may seem. You can feel sorry for them, you can blame their upbringing, but it's still their choice.

Yeah but I can agree with logical laws like... banning the burqas from schools. Luckily most of our laws are spawned by logical thinking and not religious zeal.
 
It's not, actually, when you see one of those extremely unnecessary, cumbersome and hot things worn in the sun, you can't help but think that someone is forcing someone else through that pain.
I still find it hard to believe educated women would convert to a religion that basically tells them they're breeding mares and not much else, have to obey and be faithful to the husband even if he can go and have as many women as he wants, not to mention that if he dies for his faith he'll get 47 brand new girls when he reaches heaven. Surely it was a case of rebellion or something, not a logical choice. Then again, logic and religion dont ever mix

That's funny, because quote often in winter I've seen women here in London wear the shortest of business skirts and nothing more then a shirt whilst it's been snowing with an arctic blast blowing.

I think to myself, perhaps she's wearing that because some evil man is beating her and forcing her to wear it.

Or maybe, just maybe, she's wearing it because she wants to, and doesn't really give a shit about what anyone else thinks or what the weather is like
 
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There's just a problem to your sarcastic comment: Those skirts and stuff, while short, don't mean anything cos the lycras and stockings women wear are really warm enough, at leas that's what I've been told. Also if you get a bit chilly around your legs that's not a big deal, its your torso that really matters, unless it's negative degrees out there which is rare in London...

Maybe, just maybe, your arguments are getting quite dumb.
 
I think you'll find that there is a very long history of both men and women in the middle-east wearing long, flowing robes and headscarves because it actually keeps the cooler and protects them from the sun.
 
There's just a problem to your sarcastic comment: Those skirts and stuff, while short, don't mean anything cos the lycras and stockings women wear are really warm enough, at leas that's what I've been told. Also if you get a bit chilly around your legs that's not a big deal, its your torso that really matters, unless it's negative degrees out there which is rare in London...

Maybe, just maybe, your arguments are getting quite dumb.

Or maybe your arguments were dumb in the first place, hence you shouldn't be too surprised at my sarcastic response. :rolleyes:

My point (which you seemed to have missed) was that women can, will and should wear whatever they want, regardless of the weather conditions and other people's opinions. That's their right, and I fully support it. Whether it's a short skirt in the middle of winter or an uncomfortable looking burka in the middle of summer, it's their personal choice and that's the way it should remain.

I find it funny that you've managed to convince yourself that the only reason for women wearing burka's must be due to the most extreme reasons (abuse) whilst conveniently ignoring the simplest explanation that it's worn because some individuals want to. You do realise that not all countries where the burka is found is hot and sunny, so you're "it's too warm to wear it, they must've been forced" argument goes out the window.

However, I'm not gonna pretend as if you're attitude is the first such I've come across, I guess some people have already made up their mind on this issue and will never be convinced otherwise.
 
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How can you even know what a woman wants, or if she's lying/saying something being heavily influenced by some factors?

Wikipedia said:
Before the Taliban took power in Afghanistan, the chadri was infrequently worn in cities. While they were in power, the Taliban treatment of women required the wearing of a chadri in public. Officially, it is not required under the present Afghan regime, but local warlords still enforce it in southern Afghanistan. Burqa use in the remainder of Afghanistan is variable and is observed to be gradually declining in Kabul. Due to political instability in these areas, women who might not otherwise be inclined to wear the chadri must do so as a matter of personal safety.

In Pakistan use of the burqa has declined over the time. Cities of Rawalpindi, Sargodha, Multan, Hyderabad, Peshawar and Quetta were overwhelmingly seen as cities of Burqa-clad women at the time of Independence. However burqa use still persists in rural areas of North-West Frontier Province, some adjoining areas of Punjab and Balochistan. Smaller cities like Mianwali in Punjab have exclusive burqa-observance as part of orthodox traditions.

How do you explain after the taliban were thrown out the burqa use has been declining?
Syria, a very arabic and very much muslim country, has effectively banned the darn thing.

Look I dont think everyone is forced to wear it, but I do believe the amount of women who chose it on their own free will, without being influenced as children, or by a husband, is a very very small percentage.
 
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You do realise that anybody can write an article on Wikipedia, even if they have no idea what they are talking about.

I could go to that page right now and change it so that it says that Burqa use has risen since the Taliban were ousted.
 
I'm not denying that the Taliban mistreat women.

I never said anything like that.

Feel free to read back over my posts in this thread and try to find where I've said anything even remotely close to that.

What I am saying is that not every woman in the world who wears a burqa is being forced to. If you can find a Wikipedia article which claims that no woman wears it voluntarily, feel free to post a link. :)
 
Can't be arsed. I'm out of this thread, can't even pretend I give a crap anymore xD
 
As Greenscout said, he has family members who were raised without the burqa and chose to take it up in adulthood. That is proof that some women wear it voluntarily.
 
How can you even know what a woman wants, or if she's lying/saying something being heavily influenced by some factors?

If knowing what a women wants/thinks is proof of whether or not a women is wearing a burka due to her own free will, then this is something nobody can prove to you. Furthermore, how many other things can your above statement be applied to? Why priests decide to live the life they have chosen, why nuns choose to wear their outfits, why Jewish people wear the skullcap etc, the list is endless if you start applying it universally.

All I'm simply saying is that I personally have experience of Muslim women wearing burqa's because they have chosen to. They aren't abused because I know them and their husbands/dads/brothers very well (and in some cases have lived with them).

How do you explain after the taliban were thrown out the burqa use has been declining?
Syria, a very arabic and very much muslim country, has effectively banned the darn thing.

I think you are mistakenly taking the examples of a few instances where the popularity of the dress has declined and applying it to all regions. Over the decades the burka has increased and declined in popularity over the decades, depending on the location and time. 1960's Cairo was a bit like Paris, with most women wearing skirts and few wearing burka's. Now it's almost all burka's. A few years ago in the Pakistani city of Karachi, not many women wore Burka's, but now it's shot up in popularity. Turkey, a country which for decades has been deeply secular and pro western, has in recent times seen a shift towards a pro Islamic attitude, to the extent that the government banned the Niqab (headscarf) in universities.

In summary, as I said, it varies with time and location. Two links below highlight the trend towards the dress becoming more popular:

http://religion.info/english/articles/article_173.shtml

http://www.styleshrine.com/the-rising-popularity-of-burkas-in-worldwide-fashion

Look I dont think everyone is forced to wear it, but I do believe the amount of women who chose it on their own free will, without being influenced as children, or by a husband, is a very very small percentage

And I'm not denying that women out there aren't forced to wear it. On a global scale, the majority probably are, and it's something I don't condone. But I personally reckon most women in the west who wear it do so through their own personal desire, whilst those being forced are probably in the minority.

p.s. On a seperate note, I think this topic has perhaps strayed a little off-topic and ran it's course. The threads probably close to being locked by mods, so I think I'll call it a day on this
 
he : Wife? I want to marry the 16 year old next door, do I have your permission.?
she : no
he : *beats her half to death* , do I have your permission now?
she : yes........yes sir.

Please, spare me the defending bullcrap, in a culture were the respect for a women is below zero and she has little to no rights, , how can you claim that the wife would have a real say in anything?
That's like asking African's to show up for a new election ,claming they have democratic powers as a people now, only the same dictator is the only candidate.....fat lot of good that will do.

I, for instance, never did.

That is not true.
And the man cannot marry another women without his wife's permission and even then they can marry with a max. of four, total.
If the wife doesn't allow, he has no right to do so and can be charged by law.
Those who have married though, have been wrong and should not be followed as an example.
 
There were seven complaints to the BBC about Jezza's remark. We have now filled eight pages discussing them.

:( :lock:
 
I, for instance, never did.

"And the man cannot marry another women without his wife's permission"

Looks like you were saying she does to me......not that its a real say, but you lot don't know the definition of the phrase ' womens right' anyway so I understand your confusion.......
You like to kid yourselfs you arent dominating sexists so in your mind she does have a say.....wich you will happily ignore if it suits you.
Its quite like the rest of your religion, all based on hypocricy.
 
There were seven complaints to the BBC about Jezza's remark. We have now filled eight pages discussing them.

:( :lock:

Besides, only four or so of those pages are discussing the actual incident in question; the rest are escapees from the political forums.
 
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