Clarkson's Patriotism and Anti-Americanism...

Beech18

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I just loved the fact that the airplanes flying above the all-British 50th Jaguar XKE celebration as Jeremy was going on about all things British were all-American Stearman PT 17s. I don't know if America sent any of these trainers over on Lend Lease, but if we did they have most likely have never been paid for!

By the way, any car guy should be pretty sick of TG UK's idiotic use of chassis dynos. Measuring rear wheel road horsepower and comparing it to manufacturer's flywheel horsepower is just painfull to watch. Look, it's lost 50 horsepowers!

No, it hasn't dumbass. It's called driveline loss. Add back 12 - 15% and don't take a magjic marker to the GT 500's side stripe.
 
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Beech18

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It is true that the US probably bears the brunt of foreign mocking but I'd say he shows disdain to more Brit cars than anything else. Hell he even went on about the Jensen Interceptor being slow and built (badly) out of bits of other cars until it was improved by the American GM engine...
Originally, that collection of spare parts flying in close formation known as a Jensen Interceptor was hauled around by Chrysler 383 and 440 cubic inch V8s. The rebuilt versions have GM engines.
 

Amie8

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It is true that the US probably bears the brunt of foreign mocking
And here's why...


I just loved the fact that the airplanes flying above the all-British 50th Jaguar XKE celebration as Jeremy was going on about all things British were all-American Stearman PT 17s. I don't know if America sent any of these trainers over on Lend Lease, but if we did they have most likely have never been paid for!

By the way, any car guy should be pretty sick of TG UK's idiotic use of chassis dynos. Measuring rear wheel road horsepower and comparing it to manufacturer's flywheel horsepower is just painfull to watch. Look, it's lost 50 horsepowers!

No, it hasn't dumbass. It's called driveline loss. Add back 12 - 15% and don't take a magjic marker to the GT 500's side stripe.
Final lend lease repayment was made on 26th December 2006, by the way.
 

idk

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I don't think that Jeremy is "really" patriotic. Maybe only when it comes to cars... a little bit. But besides cars, is there a single thing in Britain he hasn't criticized yet?
 

Beech18

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And here's why...

Final lend lease repayment was made on 26th December 2006, by the way.
Well, there you go. The airplanes in the all-British celebration were, in fact, American and Top Gear UK in fact does lie about dyno numbers. You actually think the world hates America because I asked if you guys paid for a couple of PT 17s? 2006, eh? That's only 61 years after the end of the war. I wish I could get a 61 year mortgage or car loan.

In the end, the only thing England does well in 2011 is Top Gear UK. Sorry if that makes you hate America.
 

Ayman

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I don't think that Jeremy is "really" patriotic. Maybe only when it comes to cars... a little bit. But besides cars, is there a single thing in Britain he hasn't criticized yet?
You can criticize and still be patriotic... In fact, it could even make you even more patriotic.
Satire can actually be one of the most prominent forms of patriotism...
So if you base your assumption on the abundance of criticism alone... I don't agree.

Hmm, I'm actually going to ignore Beech's posts... He seems to have entered a Pro-US Trance as I like to call it... Going on about the war and what not.
Judging from their reputation, I wouldn't bother responding.
 
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Loz

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By the way, any car guy should be pretty sick of TG UK's idiotic use of chassis dynos. Measuring rear wheel road horsepower and comparing it to manufacturer's flywheel horsepower is just painfull to watch. Look, it's lost 50 horsepowers!

No, it hasn't dumbass. It's called driveline loss. Add back 12 - 15% and don't take a magjic marker to the GT 500's side stripe.
Do we really need to bring this discussion up again. It's been done to death already.
 

Beech18

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Do we really need to bring this discussion up again. It's been done to death already.
I wrote a statement, you turned into a discussion. And yes, it's a prime example of how TG UK looks at American cars.

If no old topics were revisited, the posts on this site would be reduced by 95%.
 
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Luca

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2) Telling lies about American cars to make them look worse in the viewer's mind.
I think there is a general consensus today that the media does not dictate what people think, but rather what they think about. Opinions and Beliefs are hard to change. If however someone doesn't yet have an opinion on a certain issue, they might be more receptive to new suggestions. Anyway clarksons bashing (Stereotyping US cars) makes the show more entertaining....it's like when some coaches in Football demand video proof, because the ball was clearly behind the goals line, but the referee disagrees, then everyone can discuss the matter for years to come with some nice heated emotional discussions !
 

Amie8

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You actually think the world hates America
Do I? Don't remember saying that

Sorry if that makes you hate America.
See above

See also my earlier comment about Americans being just a tad sensitive
 

93Flareside

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Didn't anyone see the McLaren MP4-12C review? He liked the car but, there was something about it that he didn't like. So saying he likes all British cars is stupid. He liked the Bugatti Veyron didn't he?
 

MacGuffin

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Jeremy Clarkson represents the prime example of a modern day, educated Brit: Cosmopolitan and open-minded but also very patriotic on the brink of chauvinistic at the same time. It's typical for the ambivalent nature of modern Britain.

The thing is, though, that Britains aren't really very proud of what Britain has become. They are proud of what it used to be. And they constantly bemoan the loss of former glory, especially since in their opinion it was taken from them without them doing anything wrong. At least that's my perception. If I'm totally wrong, please correct me. It's quite the opposite to Germans: We are proud of what Germany is today but are deeply ashamed of what it used to be.

Fact is, that what we call the "Western World" today, is rooted in the British Empire. Colonisation (after they beat the Spanish) and industrialisation made them the leaders of what became our modern world. Jeremy Clarkson is actually right, when he says, that the world owes Great Britain a lot. I don't want to put all they did on a pedestal (there also was a lot of bad stuff coming from colonisation) but that's still some really big thing you can be proud of.

And that all slipped through their fingers. The brilliant engineering is still a lingering skill in modern Britain but somehow they can't manage to put it on a large scale anymore, so they can compete with other nations. It nags on them, that their former competitors and enemies have overtaken them in many sectors and that Britain today is just another European country.

From all those things comes Jeremy Clarkson's (and many Brits) attitude. Frankly I have no idea, how much of it is put on and how much of it is really his thoughts. What I noticed, though, is when he generalizes, he does it with countries and stereotypes. When he's with individuals, be it Americans, Germans, French or others, he is extremely friendly and open-minded with them in a way I wish everyone would be.

Jeremy Clarkson is a man, who knows and accepts the reality of today and can even show admiration for the achievement of others. But he is also a bit stuck in the lost glory of his home country and tries to keep its dignity and shine a light on what it is (or could be), despite of all that's going on.

One can discuss, if all his remarks and comments are tasteful or appropriate but one thing is absolutely clear: When it comes to it, he is the harshest critic of his own country, too. No need to tell him what's wrong with Britain today.

And that is what many, who bash or criticize him, ignore or simply blind out.
 
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GraemeH

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Most people have mis-interoperated the e-type ending. He wasn't being patriotic or saying that Britain makes the best stuff. He was saying that we like to think we do but we're in fact a bit crap ("as good as we THINK we are" with the big show of "patriotism", followed by the car failing to start). He was making fun of British engineering. They've done it constantly, referring to the Nobles and Ariels and whatnot as being built in sheds by men with beards.

As MacGuffin suggests, we haven't had anything to be proud of since... well since the last time my grandad met his, to be frank, which does mean that when something British does come along that we can be proud of, we get very proud of it (for example, the people in this thread talking about how a lot of the engineering of the GT-R or GT is British). It's not that we're being outright supremacists or anything, we just know we're not the best in the world at everything like we used to be, so we hop on the odd thing that we can be proud of and over-do it a bit.
So you get two contrary effects combining; we know we're a bit crap at most things now, yet when we do something great we're very proud of it, and that conflict leads to stuff like the MG-SV review which is 50% talking about how great it is and fuck the Germans and Americans and Italians, and the other 50% is, "it's shit, it's not good enough". Or the Jaguar XK review - 50% "it's the best", 50% "you can't even drive it over 110 because they couldn't design a boot-lid". People only hear the half they want to, though. Like the Corvette ZR1 review which was 90% glowing praise, yet the 'vette fans here exploded with rage at the review as if it was overall negative.
 
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TC

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Like the Corvette ZR1 review which was 90% glowing praise, yet the 'vette fans here exploded with rage at the review as if it was overall negative.
I enjoyed both the ZR1 appearances on TopGear. My only complaint with the second showing, the proper review against the Audi R8, was that they tried to type-cast the car as an overpowered monster that is near impossible to drive in a straight line. It contradicted the earlier episode with the ZR1 quite a bit. They even type-cast the Audi R8 as the sensible, stable, and easy to drive supercar of the pair. But when the Stig did his power laps in both cars, it was the Audi R8 that was getting out of shape, while the ZR1 was looking very stable and controlled. But then Clarkson tried to explain that away as only a professional racing driver could handle a ZR1 like that, but apparently not the R8 for some unexplained reason. Alittle too much fake hollywood entertainment nonsense for my liking.
 

MWF

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If it weren't for obnoxious n00bs with red blobs, the retarded, rude and trolling posts on this site would be reduced by 100%.
I think that upon close inspection you will discover your post is, in a nutshell, fixed. :p
 

suggsygirl

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I think the British in general like to think we're quietly brilliant but fear we may be a bit crap. At least we have a sense of humour about it though and don't fly off the handle when someone insults us, in fact we enjoy it and join in. Jeremy does that very well. In the same way that we can mock our siblings but if other people do it we get feisty with them... or perhaps that's just me? Also I don't think making fun of somewhere means you hate it, quite the reverse.
 

Tzarrim

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MacGuffin said it properly.

Truth is that US cars tend to be shoddy quality when compared to benchmarks like Audi and BMW, that's just how it is. I've driven many US cars but they never actually make any real sense to buy, partially due to gas mileage but mostly due to me being annoyed by a very apparent lack of attention to detail. I'm used to high quality products and therefore I refuse to agree to US car interiors and build quality, that has nothing to with being patriotic and everything to do with being realistic.
 
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Cobol74

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We are great at two blokes in a shed with beards inventing stuff, and really shit at exploiting it to make money and employ people. The upper classes despise 'Trade' and they are the ones with all the education and money.

But they know how to use a knife and fork, and to say lavatory instead of toilet. Whoop de dooo.
 
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Ayman

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Just a reminder : This is mainly about Jeremy ^^
Not about Britain in general... Although most of you are right in using him as a means to reflect British reality.
 
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