Classic or Crock

LeVeL

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Slow? These were available with a B16 in the US - far from slow.

Anyways, close one but I'll give it to Cowboy.
 

Spectre

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Slow? These were available with a B16 in the US - far from slow.

Anyways, close one but I'll give it to Cowboy.
Which almost nobody bought because it was expensive - two people have told you it's called the del Slow and there's a reason for that. Most of them came with a 106 or 127hp motor and weighed about 500lbs more than the CRX it replaced. Their horsepower wasn't enough to overcome the weight and gearing advantage of the older car.

As for why so few came with the B16, the car came out just as the big yen spike of the 1990s began and Japanese car prices started skyrocketing. The price difference between a base del slow and the VTEC one was almost enough to *buy another car* - $15080 vs $19600. In 1992, you could get a brand new Hyundai Excel for $6595. And $19644 would get you a Mustang convertible with the 5.0 HO motor. Nobody was going to spend $20K on a tiny targa when that was available.
 

Labcoatguy

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Hmm, Cowboy never came back to this thread, so here's a shallow-grave resurrection. I nominate the Saab 900 Turbo....not the original, but the controversial NG.

Yes, it'll always be in the shadow of the original 900 and the mere association with GM. After indignities like the 9-7x though, this is positively exotic by comparison. Also it has endurance testing pedigree, has a lot more Saab than the rebadged Vectra accusations might imply, and still came with turbo engines and a hatchback. With Saab gone, will a re-trial come up with a new verdict?
 

Spectre

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Crockius Maximus. The addition of pointlessly unique Swedish engineering and a heavily modified Triumph Herald engine to what was essentially what we would later get as the Saturn L200 (GM2900 platform) didn't help. The market rejected these for a reason and classic Saab enthusiasts saw it as too much of a degradation of the brand even as GM tried to move upmarket.
 

public

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Will never be a classic unlike the early 9000:s, but that doesn't make it completely terrible. Not as durable as I'd like them to be, Sensonic is a gimmick, rust is a killer and there's a lot to forget about them. Still, I'm fond of the design and some of the details.
 

Labcoatguy

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You know what, Spectre hasn't submitted one yet, so he can have this one; whenever Cowboy sees this thread though, he gets dibs since he had the last turn before me.
 

Spectre

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Since we're on questionable GM products, here's one I'm genuinely not sure of which way it will end up going: Saturn Sky Redline.
 

gaasc

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You know, I think I'll go classic on that one. Rare may not equal desirable, but a small, fast roadster with a small production run (30k and let's say 10k of those are redline manuals, since a non-paddle automatic sends them on a one-way ticket to crockville), good styling and a parts-bin drivetrain and interior that's easy(-ier) to find parts for does. Especially now that the depreciation makes it easier to gloss over the pitiful trunk and Fisher-Price B-stock interior.
 
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argatoga

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Of the Kappas, I'd say the Solstice Coupe GXP is the classic. It was the last car from a storied brand and of the 1,200 coupes made most weren't GXPs.

Saturn doesn't have a GTO, they have the SL. Rarity is only part of the equation, there needs to be a story behind it as well.
 

Spectre

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Offsetting that is the fact that it has the worst interior of the set and looks like a squished frog.
 

argatoga

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Offsetting that is the fact that it has the worst interior of the set and looks like a squished frog.
I agree on the interior (especially after having had to take it apart to install a new stereo), but classic car collectors don't care about interiors. A '65 Mustang isn't exactly a mobile Amber Room inside. The Ferrari F40 wasn't even sold with carpeting.

Classics need a story and speciality. The Solstice Coupe is rare, and was the last car created by Pontiac. People have forgotten about the TranSport and Fiero, but remember the GTO and seeing the Firebird on the big screen via Smoky and the Bandit.

Saturns are best known as being seen on cement blocks in someone's front yard, or being mismatched panel abominations you try to avoid parking next to at the Walmart parking lot.

- - - Updated - - -

Not the best comparison, but think a '65 Ford Mustang vs a '65 Falcon coupe. You talk to someone in America who owns an old Falcon and the first thing they tell you is that the Mustang is based on it.
 

Mitchi

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I wish it would have been a good car and a success, especially since we got it as the Opel GT aswell.
But I think the trunk alone made it unuseable in the real world; the rest like the interior probably killed it off entirely...

Quite sad, as it could've been the "American Miata" - a bit bigger and heavier, but more suitable for tall people (people over 190cm can often forget any MX-5 generation), a bit more comfortable (makes it better to run it as a daily), more space (well, IF the trunk was actually useable...), but still basically the same pedigree - front-engine (with a turbo!), manual gearbox in the middle, with the rear wheels being driven, preferrably through a limited slip diff.

But unfortunately it was only half-arsed.
 

Der Stig

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In an effort to revive this thread, how about the Evo X. The last ones have since rolled off the line, but as the Evo X is luke warm next to it's predecessors, will the plain, non-FE models be classics or crocks?

 

MWF

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Crock - it's gone the way the 3rd and 4th gen Golf GTi's went - all badge and no bite.
 
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