Considering a Cooper S...

[Dr. Woo]

Well, after a bit of soul-searching, I'm seriously considering a Cooper S instead of the Golf V GTI I had my heart set on. Why? Well, for one, it's cheaper (in America, the new GTI will be about $4,000 more expensive than the Coop), it's MUCH lighter (to the tune of ~2500 lbs, as opposed to the GTI's ~3000), has a GREAT guarantee (36,000 miles of free scheduled maintenance like oil changes, etc, not to mention the warranty), and what's really tempting...it's available RIGHT NOW. The American GTI won't be out until March next year.

I've read nothing but great things about the Cooper S's handling, with every review comparing it to a go-kart and having a high fun-factor. Downsides I've read include some cheap interior materials, bad low-end, and a punishing, harsh ride (expected). I'm not a big fan of the interior styling, either...but I think I could get over that.

I'm going to schedule a test-drive this week. I'm afraid that if the car is an absolute blast, I'll have one ordered for December before leaving the dealer. We shall see...I'll be sure to withhold deciding until I have time to discuss it with my parents. My mother insists that she use some of her inheritance to help me pay for a new car, as she thinks my grandparents would want it that way (my grandmother recently passed, after 5-6 years of living without her husband and in severe depression because of it).

Perhaps a Cooper S Works is in the cards, too...? I really have no idea how much inheritance I have to work with, but if it's substantial, I may order the Works package (207 bhp, 180 lb-ft), as this solves the low-end problem I've read about. Oh my, that'd be one HOT hatch.

Cooper S Works:

Interior: (size warning)
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/2005-Mini-Cooper-Works-Interior-1920x1440.jpg

 

[fbc]

We drove a Cooper (not the S) around New Zealand for two weeks - and even though it was an auto (so my wife could drive) and not an S, it was still an absolute hoot. They're great fun on a windy road.

Of course I haven't driven a GTI so I can't really compare them, but I'm fan of low weight like you Woo, so that 500lbs has got to catch up with the GTI at some point (that point being turn-in)

 

[Dr. Woo]

We drove a Cooper (not the S) around New Zealand for two weeks - and even though it was an auto (so my wife could drive) and not an S, it was still an absolute hoot. They're great fun on a windy road.

Of course I haven't driven a GTI so I can't really compare them, but I'm fan of low weight like you Woo, so that 500lbs has got to catch up with the GTI at some point (that point being turn-in)

Part of that driving fun is the fact that the suspension is the exact same setup as in the 3er and 1er BMWs. This thing got a better slalom speed from Road and Track (American auto rag) than the Porsche 911 GT2, the record-holder before the Cooper S was tested. I can only imagine what the Works would get...

 

[fbc]

We drove a Cooper (not the S) around New Zealand for two weeks - and even though it was an auto (so my wife could drive) and not an S, it was still an absolute hoot. They're great fun on a windy road.

Of course I haven't driven a GTI so I can't really compare them, but I'm fan of low weight like you Woo, so that 500lbs has got to catch up with the GTI at some point (that point being turn-in)

Part of that driving fun is the fact that the suspension is the exact same setup as in the 3er and 1er BMWs. This thing got a better slalom speed from Road and Track (American auto rag) than the Porsche 911 GT2, the record-holder before the Cooper S was tested. I can only imagine what the Works would get...

I can believe that - I'm used to my MR2, so most cars feel horribly heaving and ponderous, but the Cooper just felt great, instant turn-in, plenty of grip, hard to believe it's fwd.

 

[bone]

a guy used to be in class with drove a full tuned honda CRX, but was bored with the stiff ride, and bought himself a cooper S as well. so my guess is that the suspension won't be that hard, compared to a sport suspension

 

[andyhui01]

personally I would still go for the GTI but the cooper S is not a bad choice, I've also heard nothing but great about the suspension and the handling... people say it corners like its on rails

 

[SL65]

LOL Dr. Woo, your in a real pickle there! GTI or Cooper?? Hhhmmm, much like you, I would have my heart set on the GTI but unlike you, I will keep it there. The GTI is better IMHO than the Cooper enough to make me wait for it

Either way, i'm sure your gonna be happy whatever you buy.

 

[Buba]

I drove the Mini S 2 years ago. Its really great and fun.

But make sure to go over some bad stretches of tarmac as well, since the ride is really hard and the front wheels follow every dip in the road.

The steering is quick, but the ESP cuts too soon. I was left without power for some turns, because the ESP decided I had enough fun. (Didn't take the risk of turning it off, since I only had it for 4 hours from the BMW dealership...)

I didn't drive the new GTi, so I can't give any comparison...

Buba

 

[oliB]

Let me quote myself from this thread:
http://forum.finalgear.com/viewtopic.php?t=4643&highlight=cooper

Right now, my heart is set on the Mini Cooper S, but I'm still waiting for the MkV GTI...

I've driven both and both of them are great fun to drive!

The Mini feels a bit more go-kartish as it is ~200 pounds lighter than the Golf, but for such a small car (I'm referring to the Mini) it is still quite heavy and overpriced IMO. Furthermore the Mini is far less practical than the Golf, it's only a four-seater, there is virtually no room in the back and the trunk is ridiculously small.
To some people the Mini is a girl's car, so it would be somewhat embarrassing if you drive it as a guy... I don't care/agree though!

The Golf also feels very nimble, it is more powerful with far more interior and trunk space than the Mini. It gives you definately more bang for your buck! I'd say on the twisites it even is more fun than our (much more expensive) Golf IV R32...

To put it in a nutshell, I'd go for the Golf MkV GTI!
After all, it's Top Gear's & Fifth Gear's car of the year not for nothing...

There you go, I would buy the GTI. Even though it's more expensive it is better value for money because it's just way more practical and it still feels very nimble.

Oliver

 

[Dr. Woo]

Let me quote myself from this thread:
http://forum.finalgear.com/viewtopic.php?t=4643&highlight=cooper

Right now, my heart is set on the Mini Cooper S, but I'm still waiting for the MkV GTI...

I've driven both and both of them are great fun to drive!

The Mini feels a bit more go-kartish as it is ~200 pounds lighter than the Golf, but for such a small car (I'm referring to the Mini) it is still quite heavy and overpriced IMO. Furthermore the Mini is far less practical than the Golf, it's only a four-seater, there is virtually no room in the back and the trunk is ridiculously small.
To some people the Mini is a girl's car, so it would be somewhat embarrassing if you drive it as a guy... I don't care/agree though!

The Golf also feels very nimble, it is more powerful with far more interior and trunk space than the Mini. It gives you definately more bang for your buck! I'd say on the twisites it even is more fun than our (much more expensive) Golf IV R32...

To put it in a nutshell, I'd go for the Golf MkV GTI!
After all, it's Top Gear's & Fifth Gear's car of the year not for nothing...

There you go, I would buy the GTI. Even though it's more expensive it is better value for money because it's just way more practical and it still feels very nimble.

Oliver

Ah yes, I remember that post now! That is definitely something to take to heart.

One of my biggest concerns, however, is that while I can test drive a Cooper S no problem, the GTI is another story entirely. This is still a very hot car in Germany, so test drives are reserved for people who will be buying one. I cannot say that I will buy one...I will be returning to the States in March and do not want to buy a European-spec GTI, since I won't be able to take it home with me. If only there was a German fellow kind enough to help me with this situation...

 

[oliB]

I really can't imagine that it would be a problem for you to get a test drive with the GTI, even more so because you don't show up in a crappy car but in an Audi A4.

I've driven the GTI at the beginning of June (maybe even the end of may, can't remeber) and getting it was not a problem at all. Should be even easier by now.

As for your concern that they only give it to people who are gonna buy it, just don't tell the dealer you are going back to the US in March!
Drive it and then say you still have to make up your mind, wait for the new R32 for comparison or something.

I take it you have not driven the new GTI yet?
The test drive with the Mini will be very convincing I suppose, but I wouldn't buy it until you had a go in the GTI.

Furthermore, IIRC there is also a major facelift for the Mini coming up. If you buy it now, you'll soon have an "old" car car.

Oliver

 

[Dr. Woo]

I really can't imagine that it would be a problem for you to get a test drive with the GTI, even more so because you don't show up in a crappy car but in an Audi A4.

I've driven the GTI at the beginning of June (maybe even the end of may, can't remeber) and getting it was not a problem at all. Should be even easier by now.

As for your concern that they only give it to people who are gonna buy it, just don't tell the dealer you are going back to the US in March!
Drive it and then say you still have to make up your mind, wait for the new R32 for comparison or something.

I take it you have not driven the new GTI yet?
The test drive with the Mini will be very convincing I suppose, but I wouldn't buy it until you had a go in the GTI.

Furthermore, IIRC there is also a major facelift for the Mini coming up. If you buy it now, you'll soon have an "old" car car.

Oliver

Yes, the problem was that I was returning to the States and would be unable to purchase a German-spec car. Also, mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut, so that puts a hamper on things...though the local VW dealership is quite used to the Ami's who come in with no desire to learn a language but plenty of desire to own a German car, so they all speak English.

Apparently their GTI tester is a black five-door with leather and a 6-speed standard. Almost perfect...I'd prefer cloth and 2-door, but a 6-speed is dead-on!

I'll head up there again sometime soon, this time not mentioning that I will be leaving. Hopefully I won't encounter the same salesman!

 

[Buba]

Well, you can get in my experiance most test drives (not Porsche or Ferrari, though) just by telling them your honest opinion about the cars competitors.

I was at a Nissan Showroom after a Audi TT testdrive, just telling the Nissan man about it, and he asked me if I want to test the 350Z as well... Easy...

Buba

 

[oliB]

I'll head up there again sometime soon, this time not mentioning that I will be leaving. Hopefully I won't encounter the same salesman!

Good luck!
If it doesn't work at this dealer because of the salesman, just try another one in the area. I'm sure there's more than one with english-speaking personnel.

What a pity you're not stationed in Frankfurt, Wiesbaden or any other base nearby, then I could help you out. IIRC you're quite a bit off.

BTW, I drove your favourite combination at our dealer. (cloth, 2 door, 6 speed)

Oliver

 

[Dr. Woo]

Good luck!
If it doesn't work at this dealer because of the salesman, just try another one in the area. I'm sure there's more than one with english-speaking personnel.

What a pity you're not stationed in Frankfurt, Wiesbaden or any other base nearby, then I could help you out. IIRC you're quite a bit off.

BTW, I drove your favourite combination at our dealer. (cloth, 2 door, 6 speed)

Oliver

I'm actually stationed in Ramstein-Miesenbach, right near Kaiserslautern. An hour from Frankfurt, tops. I'm not too far!

EDIT: Whoa, broke 1,000 posts. Go me!

 

[watto]

I've driven around in a Cooper S up in the Dandenongs (very hilly area of Melbourne) and oh boy, that was the most fun I've ever had in a car. It sticks like friggin glue, not much understeer either which was nice. Yes, the interior could be a little bit better but hey, it's still a nice standard. Best of all was the whine of the supercharger... The manual shift was nice and easy and the brakes didn't fade at all (the car was being punished quite a bit that day).

Having said that, take on the advice of others and also check out the GTI

 

[bassheadjazzVR6]

The mk5 GTI is an amazing car. VW's all new 2.0T FSI motor + the DSG tranny (even though I'd still prefer the 6-spd) is excellent. That motor is such an improvement over the 1.8T it replaced. And even though the CooperS is a lot more fun to drive, the GTi is a hell of a lot more practical...

 

[logo]

minis are overpriced, don't you guys think so?

 

[SL65]

minis are overpriced, don't you guys think so?

Yeh they are Its probly because of BMW's involvement. Thats whats great about the GTI, it is still just a Volkswagon

 

[Dr. Woo]

minis are overpriced, don't you guys think so?

Yeh they are Its probly because of BMW's involvement. Thats whats great about the GTI, it is still just a Volkswagon

The little Volkswagen that could...and DID. It was faster than Porsches in its introductory years.