Court Rules Seized Multimillion Mercedes 500 K Belong to Heirs

[MacGuffin]

This could become interesting, if it is taken as a precedent, because it is known that many allied soldiers felt they had the right to help themselves with nice goodies from the conquered country:

Court Rules Seized Multimillion Mercedes 500 K Belong to Heirs

By Chris on June 2, 2012 at 4:17 pm

Remember the classic Mercedes 500 K which was confiscated by the German police back in March? Now a court in Hamburg has ruled that Hans Prym?s grandchildren have a valid claim to the rare Mercedes worth almost ? 3.0 million because it was illegally seized from the German industrialist in 1945.

The 1935 Mercedes-Benz 500 K Roadster by Sindelfingen was bought by Dutch car collector Frans van Haren at an auction in the United States for a price of $ 3,767,500 (? 2,8 million euros). When Van Haren exhibited the Mercedes at the car show Techno Classica in the German city of Essen, it was impounded under court order.

The classic Mercedes was claimed by a custodian acting in name of the heirs of the first owner, German industrialist Hans Friedrich Prym. The Prym holding company is one of the oldest family business in Germany. It was suggested that Prym sold his Mercedes-Benz 500 K Roadster to an American soldier in 1945. But according to the Prym family, the Mercedes wasn?t sold but stolen. The court in Hamburg has now ruled that there was no evidence that the American troops were entitled to take the car.

In retrospect, the decision by Frans van Haren to take the classic car to Germany turned out to be a very bad one for him, as the car became eligible for impound immediately after its return. According to German law, the statue of limitations is 30 years. A statute of limitations is an enactment which sets the maximum time after an event that legal proceedings based on that event may be initiated. The court has said the statute has not yet expired in this case, because it is in only in effect for the time the car has been in Germany.

This is good news for the Prym family, but very bad news for Frans van Haren who has bought the car in good faith, but is set to lose both the car and the money he spent on it. At this stage it?s unknown if Van Haren will appeal the ruling.

Source: gtspiritcom/2012/06/02/court-rules-seized-multimillion-mercedes-500-k-belong-to-heirs/

Obviously the car used to be green and in perfect condition, when it was brought to America by a U.S. officer but later painted red, which is an odd action, if you don't have to hide anything.

P.S.: For some reason I cannot paste the URL of the article or the corresponding pcture. Rimply add the point before "com" and it should work ok.

 

[Spectre]

If this stands up on appeal, expect the court systems to be flooded with angry French, Belgian, etc., families demanding their 'liberated' property back.

I would also point out that in the US of the 1940s through the 1970s, it was not at all uncommon to repaint a legitimately owned car if the color displeased you or if you just wanted to freshen up the look without selling the car. Repaints of average quality were cheap and widely available and not an indication of guilt. Even as late as the 1980s, paint shops would advertise such things as "Going to sell your car? Get it repainted and get more money for it!"

Including this creepy but inordinately (in)famous dude.

 

[The Spie]

Obviously the car used to be green and in perfect condition, when it was brought to America by a U.S. officer but later painted red, which is an odd action, if you don't have to hide anything.

The guy didn't like the Bile Green that Mercedes used at the time, so he took it to Earl Scheib and had them paint it red. Nothing sinister about that. After my Shadow got hit, I had it repainted in a darker shade of blue that I preferred. Made it look great.

And here's another clue, Mac: We won. You lost. We get the toys. And how much of Goering's art collection is still in museums in Germany?

 

[Spectre]

Earl Scheib

Exactly who I was thinking of - he was the next-to-last survivor of that set of quickie-paint outfits that ran from the Depression through to the 80s. I edited my post above with some of his commercials once I was able to find them.

Aside from the remnants of the Scheib chain I think the last one standing is MAACO.

 

[MacGuffin]

The guy didn't like the Bile Green that Mercedes used at the time, so he took it to Earl Scheib and had them paint it red. Nothing sinister about that. After my Shadow got hit, I had it repainted in a darker shade of blue that I preferred. Made it look great.

And here's another clue, Mac: We won. You lost. We get the toys. And how much of Goering's art collection is still in museums in Germany?

So you think, when countries go to war, it automatically justifies soldiers becoming criminals? Except of course, you see your American army in the tradition of Thirty Years' War mercenaries, who got paid by the loot of the cities they conquered.

And if you were really informed, then you'd know, that Goering's art collection was also siezed by the allies after the war. And some allied soldiers might even have stolen something of the stolen art. Many former Jewish property, that was stolen by high Nazis, later appeared in auctions in New York or London and could be traced back to allied officers, who took the term "self-service" too literally. So be careful who you accuse, before you turn all revanchist.

Seriously, Spie: As stupid as comments go, that was a 10 out of 10.

P.S.: Looted art in a war has been declared a crime in the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 already. So nobody can say, they have a right to steal something from a conquered country, not even from former Nazi Germany.

 

[Interrobang]

[...] And how much of Goering's art collection is still in museums in Germany illegally?

ftfy. And now you tell us. If you don?t mind. Making a claim is one thing, backing it up the other. We (as germans) have been rather thorough in cleaning up that kind of mess our Ancestors left. Accusations of not doing so are very much insulting.
If you know of Art that has been stolen by Goering and isn?t in posession of it?s rightfull owners to date but in some german museum (or private posession), please share that information. I?d be happy personally relaying that information to our goverment in order to return that Art to their rightfull owners. And I?m not kidding or anything. If you know so, say so.

So you think, when countries go to war, it automatically justifies soldiers becoming criminals? Except of course, you see your American army in the tradition of Thirty Years' War mercenaries, who got paid by the loot of the cities they conquered.[...]

Slow down, you?re overshooting massively here. While I do think what The Spie wrote is pretty insulting - your post is also insulting and unfair. I think this can and should be discussed in a more civil manner without so much generalisations.
Also (like the others pointed out allready) repainting the car is no big deal that says anything about guilt or so. It?s not like paintjobs in the 1930ies were made for enternity.

The verdict is problematic IMO. What?s basically missing is a piece of paper proving the American Soldier payed for the car. Now I don?t even have a recit anymore of my first car, any that?s only 17 years ago, not 75. Even if he payed for it, it?s not said he would have asked or gotten said paper. 1940ies is where you made binding contracts still by shaking hands, not writing stuff down. The parties involved at the time will most likey also not be alive anymore, or not be reliable witnesses.
So not much of a solid case either way.

 

[MacGuffin]

Slow down, you?re overshooting massively here. While I do think what The Spie wrote is pretty insulting - your post is also insulting and unfair. I think this can and should be discussed in a more civil manner.

You consider that overshooting already? You know very well, that there was a lot of looting going on after the war with no risk to be caught in the act. And in contrast to the Nazi thefts it was never really pursued much. I admit the comparison might have been a bit harsh - most allied solders were decent guys - but it touches the core of something, that is only discussed with much reluctance even today.

And I think that 70 years and in the third generation after the war, we should be free to discuss everything openly without hurting anybody's personal feelings. And a little bit of polemic should be allowed.

Back to topic and about the paint job: Maybe he really didn't like the green but that certain colour had some historic significance, because it was the first metallic green ever applied to any car. So why didn't he preserve it? It is at least a valid question. Here is a picture of the car in its current condition, by the way:

 

[Cowboy]

I think that after 75 years the whole thing is a rather moot point to be honest.....besides, I have been asking for my Grandfathers bike back for years, ze Germans keep refusing my claims

 

[Dr_Grip]

And here's another clue, Mac: We won. You lost. We get the toys. And how much of Goering's art collection is still in museums in Germany?

You are one stupid prick, to put it mildly. I really want the rep system back just to finally give you the -rep you've deserved for months.

The fact that most of the Allied soldiers did not behave in the manner you imply but as decent persons is part of what won you the peace. Unlike in Afghanistan and Iraq, where they behave like you and thus the Allies won their wars but are in the process of losing the peace.

 

[Spectre]

Back to topic and about the paint job: Maybe he really didn't like the green but that certain colour had some historic significance, because it was the first metallic green ever applied to any car. So why didn't he preserve it? It is at least a valid question. Here is a picture of the car in its current condition, by the way:

Same reason a lot of 'firsts' lost their original status - the later owner didn't like it and at the time it was 'just another old car' anyway. Historical value was not known or owner didn't care at that point. Happens to a lot of cars.

Oh, and by the way, it wasn't the first car painted a metallic green. The Dean Kruse Gallery has an original, unrestored Duesenberg Model X sedan of 1927. It's painted... metallic green. Just like many if not almost all those other "firsts!" claims made about Mercedes - an American car actually had them first.

http://www.duesenbergcars.com/duesenberg-00009.html

German "VE VERE FIRST" fail. So, what exactly was the significance of this 500K again?

 

[MacGuffin]

I think that after 75 years the whole thing is a rather moot point to be honest.....besides, I have been asking for my Grandfathers bike back for years, ze Germans keep refusing my claims

Is your grandfather's bike worth 3.8 million dollars?

 

[Cowboy]

Yes!




To me

 

[MacGuffin]

I still don't get that joke, btw. Maybe because I never had relatives, who told me about the war...?

 

[eizbaer]

Is your grandfather's bike worth 3.8 million dollars?

it might be now, if it was still around!

So, what exactly was the significance of this 500K again?

it looks totally ossum, who cares about that weird green colour thing anyway!

 

[MacGuffin]

German "VE VERE FIRST" fail. So, what exactly was the significance of this 500K again?

First rule of automobile discussion here: Always leave one small detail open for debate, so that Spectre can immediately jump into the gap and derail the thread

 

[Cowboy]

I still don't get that joke, btw. Maybe because I never had relatives, who told me about the war...?

When the Germans retreated, they confiscated pretty much everything remotely vehicle like to hasten the running away retreat, including bicycles.

As they tended to be pretty hard on the local population during the war, to put it mildly, the locals finally had a chance to laugh at them scampering for an enemy that was still miles away at the time, so stuff like that tends to get remembered.

 

[MacGuffin]

Ah, ok. But then you shouldn't consider that theft but a donation.

After all, you were happy to have them out, yes?

 

[Cowboy]

Ah, ok. But then you shouldn't consider that theft but a donation.

After all, you were happy to have them out, yes?

Offcourse....now we had the allied army to steal supplies from, they had much cooler stuff!

 

[Spectre]

Ah, ok. But then you shouldn't consider that theft but a donation.

After all, you were happy to have them out, yes?

I believe by that time, the local populace would have been more than happy to see them as permanent residents. Say, in a supine position about two meters down.

Also, you're the one who made a big deal out of the paint job, how repainting it was some sort of admission of guilt, how the paint was historically significant and an innocent man would not have repainted it, etc., etc.

 

[The Spie]

Mac, Grip: Both sides stole from each other. There's no argument about that. I'm just sick and tired of the Germans As Victims culture that seems to have developed since Reunification. I lived there prior and just after, and I didn't know a single German that acted that way. Neither did anyone pull their forelocks and beg mea culpa all the time. Everyone on both sides had moved beyond The War. Now, though? That's changed.

"Historical significance" of the paintjob? And how exactly was an American officer supposed to know that the paint was "historically significant"? He got the car by whatever means, he didn't like the color, he had it resprayed. End of story, nothing sinister. Stop reading guilt into a situation where there is none.

Over here, if we don't like the color of our car, or we want to spruce the old color up, or we need to restore bodywork after an accident, we get a new paint job done. This is why Earl Scheib is still around; I saw an extant one while driving in Missouri last week.